NO BLOW FOR THE HAWK

We often enagage in what is I think a fruitless exercise. We try to divide a fighter up and pretend that we can remove one bad element and retain all the good ones like a man is a collection of pieces rather than an integrated whole. How good could Mike Tyson have been if he wasn't crazy? What could Tony Ayala have done if he wasn't a sexual predator? It is silly.

Of course having said that? I'm going to do it anyway!

WHAT IF AARON PRYOR HAD NO AFFINITY OR DESIRE FOR COCAINE YET WAS OTHERWISE UNCHANGED?

After he defeated Alexis Arguello for the second time, the Hawk's activity level fell way off. From 1980-1982 he had been averaging four fights a year. But let's say a sustainable level was only three. After Arguello II The Hawk is 27 years old. With no blow I'm going to say he has 12 fights left at the top level. Who might he have fought and how might those have gone?

Leroy Haley-Early in 1983 he wins a squeaker over #1 ranked Saoul Mamby to become the #1 contender at 140. Haley was a very competent guy with a good chin, but he was a boxer not a puncher. I just can't see him staying with the Hawk for 12 rounds. Hawk by late stoppage.

Johnny Bumphus-At this point the formidable Bumphus is unbeaten. He's HUGE for a 140 and a southpaw and a terrific boxer. Just like Akio Kemada. But Bumphus could really punch. This is before coke ruined Bump City and this would likely have been a spectacular fight. The reason I favor the Hawk is by this time he is a grizzled vet and Bumphus really hasn't seen a superstar level fighter yet. It might have taken some time, but I think the Hawk comes from behind to win a decision.

Billy Costello-He too is unbeaten at this point. He would have been coming off wins over Bruce Curry and Mamby. Billy Costello was a very, very good fighter. But he wasn't special and he didn't have that single edge he'd be able to exploit against Pryor. The Hawk by KO.

Gene Hatcher-The Mad Dog was a tough guy and well, he was a tough guy. This is a massacre and it is over early. Hawk by KO.

At this point it is mid 1985 and there really aren't any names left at 140. But I wonder if there weren't a couple of gifted 135's who might have moved up to face the Hawk?

Livingstone Bramble-He would be coming off his two wins over Ray Mancini and is at his absolute peak. Bramble has a significant reach advantage, a good jab, he's a tough guy and I think this is a really good fight and closer than many would think. But again, I think Bramble doesn't quite bang hard enough to dissuade Pryor and eventually Bramble would be drawn into a gunfight he couldn't win. Hawk by mid round stoppage.

Hector Camacho-Camacho is unbeaten at this point and has just absolutely schooled JL Ramirez. The Rosario fight which will forever change Camacho's career has still not happened. Like Bramble, Camacho is right now at his absolute peak. This is a nightmare matchup for both men. Camacho's legs and his handspeed had the potential to keep even The Hawk guessing as Camacho controlled the ring. On the other hand, if the Hawk can slow Camacho down just a little? Camacho will stop trying to win and just try to survive. In an upset I am picking Camacho to outpoint a frustrated Hawk and never to give him a rematch.

Now it is 1986 and the Hawk decides to go to 147.

Luis Santana- The Dominican is ranked #7 but has just lost badly to Milt Mccrory. He;s a very thickset welter but he's not in Pryor's class. He knocks the Hawk down early but it is over in six. KO Pryor.

Simon Brown-The very tough Jamaican has lost only to Marlon Starling. He is strong, able, and a formidable puncher. The Hawk is beginning to slow just a little and this fight turns into a war. Pryor is down twice early, but his heart keeps him going. In the middle rounds he is landing bombs on Brown but cannot really move him. Finally late the two exhausted fighters can only stand toe to toe and the Hawk finally backs Brown up and hurts him. At the final bell the crowd is roaring and it is anybody's fight. Pryor by disputed split decision.

Mark Breland-The #1 ranked contender and the Hawk face off for the right to face champ Lloyd Honeyghan. Breland is tall, unbeaten and on the verge of obtaining Ray Leonard status. Breland schools Pryor early building up a huge lead as Pryor just cannot get inside the Breland jab. Breland is puffing Pryor's face up. In the seventh Breland slows just enough for the Hawk to begin to get to the body. In the ninth Breland gets trapped in a corner and dropped by a Pryor combination. In the tenth Breland summons his skill and dances again. This fight appears to be a race to the finish. If Breland hears the final bell he probably wins. But in the most savage closing display since LaMotta KO'd Dauthuille, a batterred and nearly blinded Pryor lands bombs to the body followed by shots to the head until with only 45 seconds left in the fight Breland is floored. He wobbles to his feet but the ref waives it off. Hawk by TKO. But Pryor is clearly fading and is now 31.

Lloyd Honeyghan-The heavy handed Ragamuffin Man shocked the boxing world when he stopped Donald Curry but he has since proved it wasn't a fluke. This fight becomes as elemental as it gets. The Hawk's extraordinary athleticism is beginning to desert him so he can only now stalk and destroy. But that fits right into Honeyghan's comfort zone. By the middle rounds this fight is all Lloyd Honeyghan. Pryor tries to the end but he is never really in the fight. Honeyghan by dominant decision.


Simon Brown II-The Jamaican has won six fights in a row all by KO since his disputed loss to Pryor. This time around it is a faded Hawk against a peaking Brown. Aaron just can't keep Brown off him and Brown quickly gains confidence and begins relentlessly hammering away at the once invincible Aaron Pryor. By the fifth round the announcers are calling for the fight to be stopped but the bravest ref in the business, Mills Lane, let's it continue. In the seventh the towel comes flying in and the great Aaron Pryor is retired.

I have no idea if I'm right or crazy, but it would have been fun.

i think your close to being 100 percent accurate.darn there were some fantastic fighters there.simon brown honeygan sure had his fantastic moments..camacho is another big what if..hes fighting soon and at 48..what a shame for he truly had talent galore..to paraphraise brando in on the waterfront..he coulda been a all time great.a top 50 all time great..

I don't know why, but I found that darkly humorous

great thread

God who lknows I think Aaron would have lasted a hell of alot longer without the cocaine

God Damn Aaron vs a prime Bump City, ahhh thats like a Tony Montana dream right there

I think Aaron could beat Honeyghan honestly, I also think Aaron destroys Camacho but I think Brelands length would give hijm a shot, great thread

dmar5143 wrote:

i think your close to being 100 percent accurate.darn there were some fantastic fighters there.simon brown honeygan sure had his fantastic moments..camacho is another big what if..hes fighting soon and at 48..what a shame for he truly had talent galore..to paraphraise brando in on the waterfront..he coulda been a all time great.a top 50 all time great..

You get a little perspective on Camacho and he gets better and better doesn't he? Rosario really ruined him psychologically but even after that he was a formidable challenge.

true, I just think Pryor would have Camacho in survival mode and the Hawk would get him

Birdofthad wrote:

great thread

God who lknows I think Aaron would have lasted a hell of alot longer without the cocaine

God Damn Aaron vs a prime Bump City, ahhh thats like a Tony Montana dream right there

I think Aaron could beat Honeyghan honestly, I also think Aaron destroys Camacho but I think Brelands length would give hijm a shot, great thread

The hard part is trying to figure out at what rate the Hawk physically and psychologically erodes. It seems to me he was never going to last for a long time, just too frenetic a style. SDo then it becomes how far from the top can he be and still handle a series of guys who would have been at their absolute peaks?

At his peak I think the Hawk beats Honyghan too. But with the miles I put on him in this exercise? Tougher call.

Birdofthad wrote:

true, I just think Pryor would have Camacho in survival mode and the Hawk would get him

I guess the question is could Pryor have done better than what Rosario did a year later? It is certainly possible. It just seeme to me a tough style matchup for the Hawk.

Canvas wrote:

I don't know why, but I found that darkly humorous

I'll be here all week!

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

great thread

God who lknows I think Aaron would have lasted a hell of alot longer without the cocaine

God Damn Aaron vs a prime Bump City, ahhh thats like a Tony Montana dream right there

I think Aaron could beat Honeyghan honestly, I also think Aaron destroys Camacho but I think Brelands length would give hijm a shot, great thread

The hard part is trying to figure out at what rate the Hawk physically and psychologically erodes. It seems to me he was never going to last for a long time, just too frenetic a style. SDo then it becomes how far from the top can he be and still handle a series of guys who would have been at their absolute peaks?

At his peak I think the Hawk beats Honyghan too. But with the miles I put on him in this exercise? Tougher call.

very good point, Pryors brawl for it all style probably eroded him quicker along wtih the drugs and boosing, very good point, and Honeyghan was no slouch like some think. After taking that into consideration your probably right

I aso agree ryor and Simon Brown would have been some wars

There are many athletes that fell victim to the Devil's Dandruff. Pryor's style was like a cocaine bender within itself. Camacho and Pete, in my opinion would have been better had they not decided to take up skiing. Terrible, terrible that is probably most detrimental to boxers who need to stick to a particular routine. The only routine cocaine knows is late nights, lots of sex and midday wake ups.

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

There are many athletes that fell victim to the Devil's Dandruff. Pryor's style was like a cocaine bender within itself. Camacho and Pete, in my opinion would have been better had they not decided to take up skiing. Terrible, terrible that is probably most detrimental to boxers who need to stick to a particular routine. The only routine cocaine knows is late nights, lots of sex and midday wake ups.

\



you jsut made cocaine sound pretty good

hahaha

you jsut made cocaine sound pretty good

hahaha[/quote]




Sounds like a pretty good retirement plan.

Ok, how about this, WHAT IF CAMACHO NEVER FOUGHT ROSARIO?

boxinglawyer wrote:

Ok, how about this, WHAT IF CAMACHO NEVER FOUGHT ROSARIO?

he rolls on until Chavez does a Rosario to him I guess.

if were talking camache vs julio ceasar chavez..ill take camacho..good fight but speed movement and more is why for sure..

dmar5143 wrote:

if were talking camache vs julio ceasar chavez..ill take camacho..good fight but speed movement and more is why for sure..

Except Chavez beat the hell out of him in like 1991 or 1992 IIRC.

Birdofthad wrote:

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

There are many athletes that fell victim to the Devil's Dandruff. Pryor's style was like a cocaine bender within itself. Camacho and Pete, in my opinion would have been better had they not decided to take up skiing. Terrible, terrible that is probably most detrimental to boxers who need to stick to a particular routine. The only routine cocaine knows is late nights, lots of sex and midday wake ups.

\



you jsut made cocaine sound pretty good

hahaha

LOL

marble i thought we were talking about the camacho of the mid 80s..before he started getting off tract...that was i believe a differnt fighter like ray leonard was when hecter koed him..

dmar5143 wrote:

marble i thought we were talking about the camacho of the mid 80s..before he started getting off tract...that was i believe a differnt fighter like ray leonard was when hecter koed him..

Fair enough. Camacho pre Rosario was really something.