Feedback, arguing and general BS'ing about my top ten list.

I know farmer hates discussions and arguments on topten lists in the voting thread, but for whatever reason I wasted a bunch of time making the lists with comments about each fighter ala sherdog rankings. I will not waste that time if I can't discuss this with you men. I surely expect my HW rankings especially to raise some eyebrows.


1. Fedor - The goat, no explination needed.
2. Josh Barnett - In activity and Affliction's demise hurt him, but I don't see anyone else on this list outside of Fedor who is better.
3. Minotauro - He is back. Mark my words.
4. Brock Lesnar - Had to drop him because of the lay off and his injuries, coupled with the fact I don't think he is that good and I hate him.
5. Andre Arlovski - I know he will rebound from his latest loss. Still the fastest hands in the division.
6. Frank Mir - Finally feel really comfortable ranking him in the top ten again.
7. Cain Velasquez - Coming along nicely. Could move up all the way to 2 for me with a win over Nog.
8. Shane Carwin - While I feel he might actually beat Cain, Cain has the better record in terms of name opponents.
9. Junior Dos Santos - Need to see your ground game bud. For real striker though. I wish Dana would let him play around in K1. If overeem can win there, he'd fuck shit up.
10. Brett Rogers - Need to see more ground game here too, but kudos for Fedor's nose.

I really really tried to justify booting one of these fools off and sticking Alex on the list, but couldn't do it. Overeem is a fake who ducks real fighters.

LHW.

1. The Dragon - is champion.
2. Shogun - Looking even better than he did in Pride all of a sudden...
3. Sugar - Of all the active and relevant former champions, I feel he is the most likely to be champion again.
4. Minotoro - We all know his ground game is sick, but it turns out he may be the best striker in the division outside of Machida all of a sudden. Super scary.
5. Rampage - I wonder how he will look when he comes back.
6. Gegard - The Dreamcatcher needs only to improve his wrestling to be literally the total package.
7. Forrest - Two straight losses and then another close battle with Ortiz have taken a lot of the shine off his potential future in the division.
8. Thiago Silva - Ever improving, maybe Silva actually can measure up to his hype someday...
9. Bones - This cat is for fucking real kids.
10. Luiz Cane - He looked like a monster against Cantwell, but like an amatuer against Nog. Wonder what the future holds for him.

HM - Rich, Tito, Vera, Jardine

MW


1. Anderson Silva - Maybe the best UFC fighter of all time. Get down.
2. Dan Henderson - While moving to Strikeforce spices up 2010 there big time, I must say I am really disappointed a fight with Marquardt never materialized.
3. Nate the Great - It's a toss up between who the second best is between he and Dan.
4. Vitor - re-energized, maybe Vitor can finally live up to the lofty expectations people had for him literally two MMA ages ago.
5. Jake Shields - I think even Jacare and Maia would run into trouble with his style of BJJ.
6. Chael Sonnen - if gritty ever described a fighter, it is him. Perhaps he has somewhat over achieved.
7. Akiyama - Should consider a move to WW.
8. Khalidov - The under the radar breakout fighter of the year.
9. Yushin Okami - I have a feeling injuries and rust have derailed him as a title contender.
10. Melvin Manhoef - I am riding high on the Misaki fight, but if he defeats Lawler, he certainly earns his place on the list.

HM - Misaki, Wanderlei Silva, Rich Franklin, Jacare, Mayhem, Santiago

WW

1. GSP - unbeatable, but then again, Serra may have been on paper his best matchup in his UFC career.
2. BJ Penn - Look, Penn will be back here someday, and no one besides Rush is beating this man ever again in his career.
3. Thiago Alves - Liddell like takedown defense and hammers for knees feet and hands.
4. Jon Fitch - a humanoid backpack of beatdown.
5. Josh Koscheck - Ever improving, he is becoming the prototype for wrestler converts.
6. Paul Daley - The best technical striker in MMA right Joe?
7. Dan Hardy - A white version of the above mentioned. Stupid ass haircut. Eventually both fighters will be exposed on the ground.
8. Nick Diaz - Look for him to submit Zaromskis.
9. Matt Hughes - It's a crime people strike him from their lists after losses to the two best fulltime WW's, one who was overweight, and a win over the last man besides GSP to hold the title, and the only other man besides himself to ever best the Canadian.
10. Jay Herion - It was a tough choice between him, Hornbuckle, and Zaromskis but with the sudden rise of Daley and Hardy in the UFC I feel it's best to go with someone with a more established well rounded skillset and resume.

HM - Hornbuckle, Gono, Mach, Zaromskis, Thiago, Condit, Kampmann, Serra

LW

1. BJ Penn - This guy could trash a few guys ranked in the MW lists and all of the WW lists south of Penn, in my mind. All this coming from a division that should have 20 guys in the "top ten" based on a high number of great fighters and parity.
2. Shinya Aoki - Don't plan on using a row boat in the months following a fight with him.
3. Kenny Florian - Looks like a killer against anyone not named BJ.
4. The Crusher - More quality wins this year vault him over Alvarez, the last man to beat him.
5. Eddie Alvarez - Despite not losing any fights and Kawajiri's K1 loss, Kawajiri has two near top ten quality wins with JZ and Yakota, while no one Eddie has beat really sniffs the top 20.
6. Diego Sanchez - His bubble was burst by a three inch slash, but he still looks like he could contend with most fighters in the division.
7. Sean Sherk - It seems like a crime to even rate the former champ this low, and how quickly his striking success against Griffin has been forgotten, Edgar fight not withstanding.
8. Gilbert Melendez - He is peaking at the right time. I really want to see him take on some of Dream and Sengokus best in the coming year in Strikeforce.
9. Frankie Edgar - He very well could be significantly better than this ranking.
10. Gray Maynard - The same is true for him. I really have a hard time figuring out some semblance of order in a division so loaded with ever improving young studs. I could just as easily transpose him with most fighters on this list starting at four.

HM - Yakota, Varner, Henderson, Carrone, Griffin, Jim Miller, Gomi, Thompson, Hirota, Kitaoka and many others.

I don't even know where to begin

How is BJ on two lists and Anderson isn't? It takes balls to put Barnett #2, but if he was the second best fighter before Steroids and the ending of Affliction, he's the second best fighter now. I wouldn't put him there but thats just me. The LHW looks good to me except for the exception of no Spider, Bones is a little iffy though. The MW list looks pretty good except for Jake, if Maia and Jacare are better with their BJJ then they are better overall fighters, Jake can't strike to save his life. I'd move him back to the WW list, he's dreaming at MW and might be the second best WW. I have no problems with the WW list, I think Penn could beat evryone there except GSP. CLEARLY he needs to ACTUALLY fight more at WW PROVE himself there, but if you wanna put him #2, thats cool, they're just rankings. I like LW, I've always wanted to see Ken Flo higher. Edgar, and Maynard are a little low for me but I've always wanted to see Melendez higher too so I guess someone has to be at 9 and 10. It's pretty stacked at LW, and there's good fighters spread accross three promotions, so who really knows. Overall the HW list is a little unothadox for me but thats JMO. And even though I think BJ is better than Alves, I wouldn't put him above him till he beats him. It takes time to sit down and make lists from scratch so props for that.

love the aoki comment about the row boat

Your HW rankings are WAY off. How the hell can you possibly rank Arlovski ahead of Mir? He shouldn't even be in the top ten at this point. Mir should be top 3. At least you got number 1 right.

All right.
HW's

1)Barnett, talented or not, hate to see a convicted roider, especially one who doesn't fight much, so high in any ranking.

2)AA, that guy needed some time off in the worst way, it will do him some good, but he has to be considered damaged good at this point, and #5 is WAY to high.

3)good to see you have come around a bit on Mir, but I still think you have him too low.

LHW's

1)I think Sugar is a little too high. should a guy drop off a win? well when little Nog and Page are sitting right there behind you then yes.

2)just a comment on Gegard. Soku battled him tough. Real tough for that first round. I think he is ranked fine. but I'd like see more of that utterly dominant Gegard.

3)Forrest, I know it was Spider, but Cote showed better. Im really down on Griffen at the moment.

4)Also agree that spider should be on the list here. High on the list.

MW's

1)Sonnen? He's a lunch pailer for sure, but his ranking at 6 shows how weak that division is.

2)And considering 1 above, Lawler should at least be an HM, he got caught vs Shields. It happens. It happened to Sonnen not too long ago.

WW

1)I might think BJ should prove he's better then Fitch or Alves b4 I rank him there.

LW.

This division has a core of good fighters in 3 different org's. Great grouping of talent, but hard to rank.

captain organic wrote:

All right.
HW's

1)Barnett, talented or not, hate to see a convicted roider, especially one who doesn't fight much, so high in any ranking.

2)AA, that guy needed some time off in the worst way, it will do him some good, but he has to be considered damaged good at this point, and #5 is WAY to high.

3)good to see you have come around a bit on Mir, but I still think you have him too low.

LHW's

1)I think Sugar is a little too high. should a guy drop off a win? well when little Nog and Page are sitting right there behind you then yes.

2)just a comment on Gegard. Soku battled him tough. Real tough for that first round. I think he is ranked fine. but I'd like see more of that utterly dominant Gegard.

3)Forrest, I know it was Spider, but Cote showed better. Im really down on Griffen at the moment.

4)Also agree that spider should be on the list here. High on the list.

MW's

1)Sonnen? He's a lunch pailer for sure, but his ranking at 6 shows how weak that division is.

2)And considering 1 above, Lawler should at least be an HM, he got caught vs Shields. It happens. It happened to Sonnen not too long ago.

WW

1)I might think BJ should prove he's better then Fitch or Alves b4 I rank him there.

LW.

This division has a core of good fighters in 3 different org's. Great grouping of talent, but hard to rank.

Where do you get your glue? The Middleweight division is weak for a guy who just beat Yushin Okami to be ranked 6th? So guys like Dan Henderson, Nate Marqurdt, Vitor Belfort, and even Michael Bisping(you gotta admit he could take anyone in the bottom 5 of the top ten on his best day) is a weak division...



Back to the original topic. I strongly disagree on the Josh Barnett Ranking. Guy hasn't fought almost a year now, just got busted AGAIN for steroids, and he's ranked 2nd? How can you drop Brock for a layoff and not Barnett for the layoff he's already on?

Arlovski shouldn't be ranked above Mir, Mir's too talented a fighter right now not to be in the top five at the very least. Everyone snubbed him when he said he was going to standup with Kongo and look at what happened.

As far as the rest of the heavyweights I can live with those, I might switch Carin and Cain but thats about it.

Lightheavyweight looks okay. I'd switch Shogun and Machida Myself but I can understand why you didn't.

I would have put Jacare in the list on Middleweights, even low like 9 or 10.

Fitch and Alves need to switch.

Aoki needs to drop one spot down and make way for Florian at the very least. His ground game is sick, but his standup wouldn't hold a candle to Kenny's.

Sherk doesn't really have a place anymore in a division filled with youger guys with skills that are becomming more and more well rounded. His striking is sluggish at best, his arms are too short. And his wrestling is becomming predictable.

There is a big drop off after #4 at 185. The fact that Lietes and Cote recentely got title shots backs that up. If Sonnen doesn't get pummeled by Nate, I'll be very surprised.

Oh I'm not saying Sonnen is going to survive that one. Not by a long shot. But the division is in no way "weak". Once Cote comes back I think the division will be even stronger still. There is still a deep pool of talent in the division to keep it going for a long time to come even with the current roster. Belcher, Akiyama(even though he's not young), Bisping, Maia, Marquardt, and Sonnen amongst others.

The #5(on wolf's list and a fair ranking imo) is also fully expected to get pummeled in the near future as well.

The division is lacking after #4. Very good till 4, but very weak after.

The talent pool is built for the not so distant future in the division right now. By 2011 I doubt anyone will be saying there is a huge drop off between top four and bottom five.

Sorry Wolf... I can't rip on you for having fighters a couple spots in either direction of where I'd have them. Lists are opinions, and even as far out in left field as your opinions are at times, these I can't take to task...

Well since you asked.

Your list is great because it is yours. Mine is the best because it's mine. Your list is terrible because it's not mine. All good.

Barnett was my #2 in the early half of last year. Now its been 12 months, no fight, roid depression, and I have him #9. He is a force but will be off my list if he doesn't fight. That is some of the rationale I have for lowering Brock as well. Can't wait to see AA start fighting again too. I would prbably pick him to KO Mir if he worked his way back to that kind of oppritunty.

Evans # 3. Not for me. Takedowns are good, still not overly impressed with the rest.

There are no top ten MW japanese fighters. Oh wait the Super Hulk can beat anyone!

Verdict on BJ as WW is ? Don't want to see him fight GSP again yet but would love to see him against any of the rest.

Sanchez looked better than Carl Uno in his fight against BJ. That's it, well maybe a few others, but really I think his entire Hype bubble was popped. But he is top 15ish, that's not a bad thing in a deep division.

props for taking the time
but Andrei Arlovski at number 5?
tell me this is from a year ago please

How is Filho not above Melvin?

I should have Spider in LHW, this is true. Good eye guys. Whiffed on that one.

I had AA as number 2 or 3 before and also after the Fedor loss. I don't see how a possibly flukish loss to Rogers before the fight even started means he isn't top ten all of a sudden, especially considering Roger wasn't embarrassed by Fedor, and appears to be legit himself. If the Serra fight had happened after GSP's first loss to Hughes, would we strike him from all WW lists? I firmly believe AA would send Mir's head into the seats. It took many losses to finally strike Chuck and Wandy from the lists, many more than two.


Good point on the Barnett lay off, but we at least know how good Barnett really is and he does have a history of long term success, where as Brock has had a rather easy road so far. Mir and Couture are his only good wins in his entire career, and Randy is nearly 50, and Mir, who I also have some issues with, is 1-1 with him, offsetting that win to an extent, even if Mir barely survived long enough to get lucky. As for Barnett's roids, Brock has a cloud of suspicion around him as well, and was also caught with HGH, another form of steroid himself, so it is a two way street. All that on top of his career threatening injury which has stopped if not reversed his progress as a martial artist, and also very likely eliminated some of his true weapon anyway; his athleticism.


Ya Lawler should be an honorable mention.

Why isn't Filho above Melvin?

Long answer ; Because Fihlo landed a hail mary armbar in a fight he was knocked out like twice in, in addition to being a fruitcake who has looked like horse shit for two years. Drugs, skipping fights, vanishing on promotions, and bad performances. I'm sure Melvin wouldn't make that same mistake again, and Melvin just stopped Misaki( and my ranking of Melvin has as much to do with spontanious fanboyism as where he really belongs)


Short answer ; He moved to LHW and will probably never come back down.

I just think Rogers deserves to be rated higher than Andrei but still good lists and thanks for taking time to do them, they are taxing

Your welcome. I want to see your lists. Just do a p4p. I predict ;


1. Ken Shamrock
2. Pete Williams
3. Anderson Silva
4. Marco Ruas
5. Mark Coleman
6. Tank Abbott
7. Guy Mezger
8. Bruce Lee
9. Teli Tuli
10. Pat Smith

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Why isn't Filho above Melvin?

Long answer ; Because Fihlo landed a hail mary armbar in a fight he was knocked out like twice in, in addition to being a fruitcake who has looked like horse shit for two years. Drugs, skipping fights, vanishing on promotions, and bad performances. I'm sure Melvin wouldn't make that same mistake again, and Melvin just stopped Misaki( and my ranking of Melvin has as much to do with spontanious fanboyism as where he really belongs)


Short answer ; He moved to LHW and will probably never come back down.

Hail mary armbar? Come on Wolf all of Melvin's fights look the same. He either knocks his opponent out in the first 10 seconds or gets subbed. To quote Michael Schiavello: “When it goes to the ground he gets tapped more times than Tiger Woods in Booty Call." He has made the same mistake over and over again.

Fine, as you wish, take the second answer then. Paulo has two LHW fights to his name since then.

your rankings are awful wolf

Your breath is awful. It's because you eat male asshole. Now, care to give a reason why my rankings are awful?


Sorry not everyone buys into the Lesnar number 1 p4p all time argument, Oggy mc Peepants.

yea because i've said Lesnar is number 1 p4p all time...

Barnett is not the 2nd best heavyweight, he would get beaten alot if he came to the ufc. What the fuck is he doing with himself now anyway? Does he even plan to fight again? Who fucking knows. Honestly you can through him in the same boat as Overeem for all i care. I will never forgive him for fucking up the fedor fight and leading to the demise of affliction.

Arlovski at 5 pffft!!!! What the fuck has he done in the past 4 years anyway!?! Besides beating Fat Nelson and proving he has the worst chin in mma??? Give me a break.

Lil Nog needs another quality win to establish himself as top 5 imo. Not a huge deal though.
No Anderson in your lhw's? You have Luiz top 10 after getting ko'd but no Randy.

No Demian Maia in ur top 10?

Even if BJ did fight at WW anymore, he certainly doesn't deserve to be ranked number 2. When was the last time he even won a fight at WW again? Oh yea 5 fucking years ago.

I dont give a fuck what anyone says Jay Hieron aint top 10 and he never will be. Thats a joke.

Kawajiri is too high, Sherk is ridiculously too fucking high, you do realize Frankie just boxed the fuck out of him right? Frankie is too low, Maynard too low, your LW rankings are all sorts of fucked up.

Thats basically it.

no response from wolfdork?