Winningest MMA Camp in UFC ?

Does anybody know who it is? Cause I dont, I have gone throught it and know that up till UFC 30 it was Lions Den, I have no clue if they still are but doubt it. I also dont know if or when they would have lost that claim.

But I have done some number crunching, cause it took alot of time I just went from UFC 20 because at UFC 18 the announcers said for a fact Lions Den was winningest camp in their History.

So, from UFC 1 - 20 many numerous fighters fought with or under the Lions Den.

From UFC 1-20 the Lions Den went 31-12-3 in UFC matches

Mikey Burnett went 2-1 , with a BS decision loss to Pat Miletich in Lightweight Title Fight
Jerry Bohlander went 5-2 from this time period and never fought in UFC again, UFC 12 Tournament Winner
Mark Coleman went 0-1 , trained with Lions Den and Ken was cornerman for UFC 19 loss to Pedro Rizzo
Guy Mezger went 4-1 , UFC 13 Tournament Winner
Maurice Smith went 1-0, trained with Lions Den for Coleman fight winning UFC Heavyweight Title
Frank Shamrock went 4-0, Middleweight Champ
Ken Shamrock went 5-2-2 draws to Gracie and Taktarov fights he clearly won, should be 7-2, SuperFight Champ
Oleg Taktarov went 6-2-1 with the draw to Ken, UFC 6 Tournament Winner
Tra Telligman went 1-2
Pete Williams went 3-1

So Lions Den went 31-12-3, The First SuperFight Champion, 3 Tournament Winners in 4 Tournament Finals, 1 Heavyweight Champion, 1 Middleweight Champion

Not bad for a 6 year period in the first 20 UFC's

If you guys know who the winningest is know by all means, cause I am curious


These were all in fights from UFC 1-20

Now for the even funner part lets look at who these 12 losses came against

Royce Gracie (Ken), Dan Severn 3 times (1 to Ken 2 to Oleg),Pat Miletich (Mikey), Vitor Belfort (Tra), Pedro Rizzo twice (Tra and Coleman), Tito Ortiz twice (Guy and Jerry), Gary Goodridge (Jerry), Takahashi (Pete)

Cant say they werent fighting the best

I knew from the TS when I saw the title that the thread would deal only with the UFC before color TV was invented.

Lions Den, Hammerhouse, Raw ruled the old days. Then came Miletich. Nowdays Blackhouse and Jackson rule. Pride was ruled by Red Devil, Chutebox and BTT.

ya I only talk about what I know to a tee on and thats the olden days
Lions Den, RAW and HammerHouse is how I would rank them for this time period
Since Lions Den was represented by multiple fighters in first 5 UFC's, Raw didnt start getting repped til 10 - 15
Randleman didnt come in till UFC 18 or 19
so obviously Lions Den ruled those days

But do you know who it eventually became ?
I was thinking Miletich

and Miletich was training back then
he didnt do to good though, His Indian (forget name) got destroyed by Tank Abbot and Pete Williams beat Steve Fulton
cant remember but Miletich was already training fighters from 10-20, Jeremy Horn over Liddell

remember Ruas Vale Tudo?

Quote :

I was thinking miletich

Well clearly, he had his own title, then he had Hughes, Jens, Timmy and Rich Franklin, and other very successful fighters like Jeremy Horn and Spencer Fisher.

No camp is even close to having as many champions in the title belt era are they?

Jackson has what, two? GSP and Rashad. ATT has two WEC ones. Brain Bowles and Mike Brown. Blackhouse has three. Lyoto Machida, Anderson Silva, and Big Nog. Nova Uniao has two, if you count BJ Penn in that along with Jose Aldo. Team Quest, while essentially an extention of team Raw was also pretty successful in it's day with Randy, Evan and Dan(Pride)


Pat wins by default for turning a giant two toed sloth like Sylvia into a world beater anyway.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

I was thinking miletich

Well clearly, he had his own title, then he had Hughes, Jens, Timmy and Rich Franklin, and other very successful fighters like Jeremy Horn and Spencer Fisher.

No camp is even close to having as many champions in the title belt era are they?

Jackson has what, two? GSP and Rashad. ATT has two WEC ones. Brain Bowles and Mike Brown. Blackhouse has three. Lyoto Machida, Anderson Silva, and Big Nog. Nova Uniao has two, if you count BJ Penn in that along with Jose Aldo. Team Quest, while essentially an extention of team Raw was also pretty successful in it's day with Randy, Evan and Dan(Pride)


Pat wins by default for turning a giant two toed sloth like Sylvia into a world beater anyway.

Well it depends what history you choose, actual UFC history or History Dana made
UFC 12 and 13 were the inagural Middleweight and Lightweight Tournaments but the fighters were given medals not Belts.
Jerry and Guy were still considered the best, just like when Miletich won his tournament, but since Burnett dropped out in the tournament, Burnett vs Miletich was set up.
I cant see how anyone really thinks Miletich won that one. Also SuperFight Champ was the lineage for the real Heavyweight title, Severn was SuerFight champ and Coleman had won UFC 10 and 11 tournaments

so really Lions Den in that short span had first Superfight/Heavyweight Champion, First Lightweight Champion, first Middleweight Champion, then followed with Shamrocks middleweight division when they re-did the weights, Maurice Smith Heavyweight Champion,

So thats 5 Champions right there, add in Burnett should make it 6, Pete Williams lost for title vs Randleman, and Oleg Taktarov drawed Ken

If you dont want to believe the claim on Mezger and Bohlander, then they had 3 Champions in this time period

Maybe Im wrong but I dont know if any other camp did this much in 15 UFC fight stretch, cause really it started with UFC 4 to 20

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

I was thinking miletich

Well clearly, he had his own title, then he had Hughes, Jens, Timmy and Rich Franklin, and other very successful fighters like Jeremy Horn and Spencer Fisher.

No camp is even close to having as many champions in the title belt era are they?

Jackson has what, two? GSP and Rashad. ATT has two WEC ones. Brain Bowles and Mike Brown. Blackhouse has three. Lyoto Machida, Anderson Silva, and Big Nog. Nova Uniao has two, if you count BJ Penn in that along with Jose Aldo. Team Quest, while essentially an extention of team Raw was also pretty successful in it's day with Randy, Evan and Dan(Pride)


Pat wins by default for turning a giant two toed sloth like Sylvia into a world beater anyway.

Good catch Hollywood came around 17

also Lions Den completely owned the Tournament format and no Camp came even close to winning as many tournaments with different fighters

Won 3 tournaments with 3 different fighters, and Oleg lost a 4th one at Ultimate Ultimate

RAW had Henderson, Couture, and Kerr though so its close in tournament aspect

Its cool to be a fan of old school UFC and MMA. Its cool to have favorite fighters and camps, but bird this is a little weird. If Lion's Den was so great then why aren't they still relevant?

MFS at its peak was about as good as it gets. Chute Boxe during the same time period was damn good too.

Jackson is probably the best now, but still not near the dominance as MFS. Tons for respect for Xtreme Couture, ATT, AKA, Red Devil, HIT Squad, ACS, & BTT.

I leave off Blackhouse because its not quite like the other gyms.

If you knew em hard to not be a fan
I agree they didnt last the face of time, but through those first 20-30 UFCs they were very relevant and Williams, Ken and Teligman fought in UFC in the 2000's

Just because your not relevant today doesnt mean you werent once great.
Cause they truly were
I was really jsut curious if anyone had the actual numbers for winningest camp in UFC, cause if we did MMA my god I dont think we could ever figure it out

Birdofthad wrote:

If you knew em hard to not be a fan
I agree they didnt last the face of time, but through those first 20-30 UFCs they were very relevant and Williams, Ken and Teligman fought in UFC in the 2000's

Just because your not relevant today doesnt mean you werent once great.
Cause they truly were
I was really jsut curious if anyone had the actual numbers for winningest camp in UFC, cause if we did MMA my god I dont think we could ever figure it out

It is an interesting question, but you also have to factor in some guys crossing over into multiple camps which kind of throws in wrench in everything. I mean its not as clear cut a playing for the Rockets or Texans.

Bird, you really like shamrock??

This is just one instance but at a local show he actually wanted to get physical with a fan. I didnt get to see it Cause I was in bull pen but he was on the mic and called out a fan for some action. Seems kinda weak if you ask me or maybe its just the anabolics

Farmer1906 wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

If you knew em hard to not be a fan
I agree they didnt last the face of time, but through those first 20-30 UFCs they were very relevant and Williams, Ken and Teligman fought in UFC in the 2000's

Just because your not relevant today doesnt mean you werent once great.
Cause they truly were
I was really jsut curious if anyone had the actual numbers for winningest camp in UFC, cause if we did MMA my god I dont think we could ever figure it out

It is an interesting question, but you also have to factor in some guys crossing over into multiple camps which kind of throws in wrench in everything. I mean its not as clear cut a playing for the Rockets or Texans.

Exactly, Maurice Smith came and showed Lions Den some Muay Thai and Kicks, they showed him how to work the guard.
Mark Coleman came and worked on conditioning and submissions and taught them some wrestling

It was a scratch my back I will scratch yours type of world back then and still is.

Cu Bua wrote:

Bird, you really like shamrock??

This is just one instance but at a local show he actually wanted to get physical with a fan. I didnt get to see it Cause I was in bull pen but he was on the mic and called out a fan for some action. Seems kinda weak if you ask me or maybe its just the anabolics

Ya I basically have known the Lions Den from 94 or 95 to 98 Couldnt have been nicer guys to me, I was just a kid
If some guy heckled Ken ya I bet he would talk smack back, people dont realize but at numerous UFCs this Heavyweight Champ from Extreme Fighting was always talking crap to ken and their were several run ins with his camp and the Lions Den .

Its actually funny if you watch UFC 19 watch Ken yelling at Tito, and Tito isnt being tough Tito, he is going
"But he.... well he....." pointing at Mezger, he definently wasnt acting like the Huntington beach Bad Boy, this was after he put the shirt on saying Gay Mezger is my Bitch
he then took off the shirt, and Ken shouted to him dont let me catch you wearing that shirt Tito or Ill kick your ass

Tito didnt put the shirt back on.
I wish Ken had fought him in his prime, not on the comeback tour, but oh well

and ya man of course I like Shamrock, guy came to my virthday for christ sake, why wouldnt I like him

Here is each fighters biggest performance from this era

Mikey Burnett - Ok I really dont know which one to pick, vs Tadeu it was a barn burner, vs Townsend he was a hug underdog and won, but his loss to Pat Miletich in a fight he completely dominated is his best performance from this time. https://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g298/theevaletudo/?action=view&current=MikeyB.flv

Jerry Bohlander - His first fight in UFC at UFC 8, was vs Scott Ferrozzo a man that outweighed him by 100 pounds, Jerry took foot stomps and slams, before choking Ferrozzo out at 10 minute mark. Even using Ferrozzos shirt for the choke. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rJh3-D0kFY

Guy Mezger - UFC 13, Guy sprawl guillotined Tito Ortiz to win the tournament. Biggest victory for him from this time period by far,as he won UFC 13 tournament and gave Ortiz his first loss, also started Tito Ortiz's hatred of Lions Den. http://www.gamespot.com/users/hydrolite/video_player?id=JXZinzCs5bgKuj_X

Maurice Smith - his only fight with Lions Den was biggest win of his career, as he upset unbeaten UFC Champion Mark Coleman with the MMA version of the rope a dope at UFC 14. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sBrXCrYkR4

Frank Shamrock - hadnt fought Tito Ortiz during this time period, so it is between his 14 second armbar of Olympian Kevin Jackson or 24 slam dunk TKO of Igor zinoviev. Jackson was gold medalist wrestler, and Igor was undefeated champion of rival Extreme Fighting. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3lwkn_155-frank-shamrock-vs-kevin-jackson_sport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYvYTvCG0Cw

Ken Shamrock - drawing and dominating Royce Gracie, outweighs submitting Severn and Kimo and drawing with Taktarov. Just for the fact nobody thought Gracie could be beaten or controlled. http://www.vbox7.com/play:692d159a

Oleg Taktarov - while beating Tank Abbot and drawing Ken Shamrock was huge, being the first to defeat Marco Ruas was his biggest win in this time period at Ultimate Ultimate. Cant find the Ruas fight, heres the Tank Oleg fight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKxQ3L4nKTw

Tra Telligman - his loss to Pedro Rizzo, Tra came close to knocking Rizzo out early, but Rizzo sustained and did Tra in, but man it was fun and a good performance, I think this outweighs his victory over a nobody. http://www.mmascraps.com/2007/11/pedro-rock-rizzo-vs-tra-telligman-old.html

Pete Williams - His first UFC fight, he is a late substitute, Mark Coleman is coming off his first loss. Pete gives Coleman his 2nd loss to a Lions Denner, with the biggest head kick in the UFC at that time. KOd Coleman brutally in first overtime. http://www.videodetective.com/titledetails.aspx?PublishedID=980158

LA if ever I would give a post a positive rep it would be yours, that is if I could even do that...

i got you wolf

I dont get it LA? does that mean were stoned? puff puff pass then

thad lions den was relevent 10 years ago and havnt been really since.

I know
but no one has really answered my question who is the winningest?

I dont get why people are bashing on Lions Den they were the first american MMA camp and showed alot of people what to do, along with winning alot of fights
Also Vernon White was the shit, and Roy Nelson is most recent Lions Den connected guy to be in UFC right know

two words BUZZ BERRy