Are "we" spending too much?

bird, where you at on this thread?

You're all over this board but you are avoiding this one.

so Farmer do you know what Rick Perry did with the stimulus package?
he claimed he would fight it

then he took 416 million and balanced the budget in Texas.
He then ran as president claiming he balanced the texas budget.

Thanks for making this easy.

I guess you want GM out of business and 2 million more people out of business along with the 10 million jobs Bush lost.

the DOW is at 13,200. You clearly don't understand how far we have come since Bushs economic collapse.

whats next Obama shat in your cereal?

Birdofthad wrote:

so Farmer do you know what Rick Perry did with the stimulus package?
he claimed he would fight it

then he took 416 million and balanced the budget in Texas.
He then ran as president claiming he balanced the texas budget.

Thanks for making this easy.

I guess you want GM out of business and 2 million more people out of business along with the 10 million jobs Bush lost.

the DOW is at 13,200. You clearly don't understand how far we have come since Bushs economic collapse.

Not only does this not address the video, but its not even accurate.

Come on bird. Tell me your thoughts on the video.

Farmer, my thoughts are clear, we had 8 years with a fucking moron as president who nearly saw the complete financial collapse of our government and country, his moronic decisions brought about the global economic collapse in the world, mainly because we were the worlds main player.

If you don't realize that spending money and saving parts of the private sector is fundamental vs implementing austerity measures then you don't understand economics or the way the economy or world economy works for that matter.

Have fun living in some fantasy land where reaganomics is the way to go, remember when everyone paid their fair share of taxes and we had 4 years of a surplus? Bet you don't want to talk about that? do you?

Obama inherited the third biggest mess in american history. Lincoln inherited worst from Buchanan and FDR inherited worst from Hoover. Thats about fucking it.

Have fun voting for the policies that got us in this trouble in the first place if you want to, but don't be pissed off at how history judges your ideology.

Farmer1906 wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

so Farmer do you know what Rick Perry did with the stimulus package?
he claimed he would fight it

then he took 416 million and balanced the budget in Texas.
He then ran as president claiming he balanced the texas budget.

Thanks for making this easy.

I guess you want GM out of business and 2 million more people out of business along with the 10 million jobs Bush lost.

the DOW is at 13,200. You clearly don't understand how far we have come since Bushs economic collapse.

Not only does this not address the video, but its not even accurate.

Come on bird. Tell me your thoughts on the video.

whats not accurate?

Perry DID DO THAT
GM IS #1
DOW IS AT 13,200

Birdofthad wrote:

Farmer, my thoughts are clear, we had 8 years with a fucking moron as president who nearly saw the complete financial collapse of our government and country, his moronic decisions brought about the global economic collapse in the world, mainly because we were the worlds main player.

If you don't realize that spending money and saving parts of the private sector is fundamental vs implementing austerity measures then you don't understand economics or the way the economy or world economy works for that matter.

Have fun living in some fantasy land where reaganomics is the way to go, remember when everyone paid their fair share of taxes and we had 4 years of a surplus? Bet you don't want to talk about that? do you?

Obama inherited the third biggest mess in american history. Lincoln inherited worst from Buchanan and FDR inherited worst from Hoover. Thats about fucking it.

Have fun voting for the policies that got us in this trouble in the first place if you want to, but don't be pissed off at how history judges your ideology.

So you're fine with spending more money that we don't have if it jobs from getting worse than say 10%?

wouldn't it be nice if americans didn't make billions by putting 101 millions in a Cayman Island bank account, out of the country, while probably distorting their income to further cheat the tax payer, while also attempting to lie about the value of their house, once against screwing the system (and our economy).

Ya, but lets keep living in fantasy land and act like our country didn't collapse in 2007 to 2008.

Farmer1906 wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

Farmer, my thoughts are clear, we had 8 years with a fucking moron as president who nearly saw the complete financial collapse of our government and country, his moronic decisions brought about the global economic collapse in the world, mainly because we were the worlds main player.

If you don't realize that spending money and saving parts of the private sector is fundamental vs implementing austerity measures then you don't understand economics or the way the economy or world economy works for that matter.

Have fun living in some fantasy land where reaganomics is the way to go, remember when everyone paid their fair share of taxes and we had 4 years of a surplus? Bet you don't want to talk about that? do you?

Obama inherited the third biggest mess in american history. Lincoln inherited worst from Buchanan and FDR inherited worst from Hoover. Thats about fucking it.

Have fun voting for the policies that got us in this trouble in the first place if you want to, but don't be pissed off at how history judges your ideology.

So you're fine with spending more money that we don't have if it jobs from getting worse than say 10%?

Obama is attempting to bring more jobs into the country, he has even tried to make it easier for veterans to get jobs. Guess who fought him on that?

He is reversing the system so that you get a tax break if you keep you corporation tin the united states, instead of getting a tax break for taking your corporation out of the united states.
Guess who has made tons of money doing that and is going to allow american dollars to leave the country.....
Guess who is going to help the economy by making people like Mitt Romney pay more than 14% in their taxes.....
Guess who is going to give Mitt Romney a tax break while raising my taxes by 2,000 dollars......

Birdofthad wrote:

wouldn't it be nice if americans didn't make billions by putting 101 millions in a Cayman Island bank account, out of the country, while probably distorting their income to further cheat the tax payer, while also attempting to lie about the value of their house, once against screwing the system (and our economy).

Ya, but lets keep living in fantasy land and act like our country didn't collapse in 2007 to 2008.

Why are so you against making money? Is cause your poor and don't want people to be successful? I don't get it.

And you wanna know why it collapsed? Because people spent money they didn't have. All the car manufacturers. All the people that got loans and houses they had couldn't afford.

Farmer1906 wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

wouldn't it be nice if americans didn't make billions by putting 101 millions in a Cayman Island bank account, out of the country, while probably distorting their income to further cheat the tax payer, while also attempting to lie about the value of their house, once against screwing the system (and our economy).

Ya, but lets keep living in fantasy land and act like our country didn't collapse in 2007 to 2008.

Why are so you against making money? Is cause your poor and don't want people to be successful? I don't get it.

And you wanna know why it collapsed? Because people spent money they didn't have. All the car manufacturers. All the people that got loans and houses they had couldn't afford.

Im against someone who has taken 100's of millions of dollars out of the country, trying to tell me I need to pay 2,000 more in taxes while he gets another tax break.

Sorry thats the problem I have with Mitt Romney, add in he won't even show us his tax returns. Im not poor and sorry I get upset when millionaires try to cheat americans out of money by lying about their house value.

Birdofthad wrote:

Farmer1906 wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

Farmer, my thoughts are clear, we had 8 years with a fucking moron as president who nearly saw the complete financial collapse of our government and country, his moronic decisions brought about the global economic collapse in the world, mainly because we were the worlds main player.

If you don't realize that spending money and saving parts of the private sector is fundamental vs implementing austerity measures then you don't understand economics or the way the economy or world economy works for that matter.

Have fun living in some fantasy land where reaganomics is the way to go, remember when everyone paid their fair share of taxes and we had 4 years of a surplus? Bet you don't want to talk about that? do you?

Obama inherited the third biggest mess in american history. Lincoln inherited worst from Buchanan and FDR inherited worst from Hoover. Thats about fucking it.

Have fun voting for the policies that got us in this trouble in the first place if you want to, but don't be pissed off at how history judges your ideology.

So you're fine with spending more money that we don't have if it jobs from getting worse than say 10%?

Obama is attempting to bring more jobs into the country, he has even tried to make it easier for veterans to get jobs. Guess who fought him on that?

He is reversing the system so that you get a tax break if you keep you corporation tin the united states, instead of getting a tax break for taking your corporation out of the united states.
Guess who has made tons of money doing that and is going to allow american dollars to leave the country.....
Guess who is going to help the economy by making people like Mitt Romney pay more than 14% in their taxes.....
Guess who is going to give Mitt Romney a tax break while raising my taxes by 2,000 dollars......

hahah I get nagged for telling the truth, everything I have stated above is a fact. The Republicans blocked the Jobs Bill, even the veterans portion. same with everything else I mentioned.

If you neg something that is pure fact, it shows you have no argument, especially since you didn't even make one.

Farmer1906 wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

wouldn't it be nice if americans didn't make billions by putting 101 millions in a Cayman Island bank account, out of the country, while probably distorting their income to further cheat the tax payer, while also attempting to lie about the value of their house, once against screwing the system (and our economy).

Ya, but lets keep living in fantasy land and act like our country didn't collapse in 2007 to 2008.

Why are so you against making money? Is cause your poor and don't want people to be successful? I don't get it.

And you wanna know why it collapsed? Because people spent money they didn't have. All the car manufacturers. All the people that got loans and houses they had couldn't afford.

global economics aren't as simple as this unfortunately. the whole economy was built on debt, if people don't spend money they don't have there is nothing to support growth in business so the honeypot still dries up and we still have a recession.

the economy was brought to it's knees by institutionalised greed and corruption in the finance sector and compounded by western governments being in the banks pockets and allowing them to run amok unregulated. when major international banks are doing things like investing in hedge funds and toxic debts with the one hand, and betting on those hedge funds to fail with the other, the economy was essentially brought down by a series of systematic frauds. those bankers should be in federal pokey, never mind losing their bonuses.

Birdofthad wrote:

Farmer1906 wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

so Farmer do you know what Rick Perry did with the stimulus package?
he claimed he would fight it

then he took 416 million and balanced the budget in Texas.
He then ran as president claiming he balanced the texas budget.

Thanks for making this easy.

I guess you want GM out of business and 2 million more people out of business along with the 10 million jobs Bush lost.

the DOW is at 13,200. You clearly don't understand how far we have come since Bushs economic collapse.

Not only does this not address the video, but its not even accurate.

Come on bird. Tell me your thoughts on the video.

whats not accurate?

Perry DID DO THAT
GM IS #1
DOW IS AT 13,200

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304746604577381630912081096.html
gm profit margin down 69% thats not number one in business, sales maybe with the help of partially owned chinese subsidiaries . ALso note that the goverment picked gm to suceed with BK, bailout from tax payers and incentives while Ford has not filed BK or taken the huge handout they are making more money 3 years later

Cu Bu wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

Farmer1906 wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

so Farmer do you know what Rick Perry did with the stimulus package?
he claimed he would fight it

then he took 416 million and balanced the budget in Texas.
He then ran as president claiming he balanced the texas budget.

Thanks for making this easy.

I guess you want GM out of business and 2 million more people out of business along with the 10 million jobs Bush lost.

the DOW is at 13,200. You clearly don't understand how far we have come since Bushs economic collapse.

Not only does this not address the video, but its not even accurate.

Come on bird. Tell me your thoughts on the video.

whats not accurate?

Perry DID DO THAT
GM IS #1
DOW IS AT 13,200

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304746604577381630912081096.html
gm profit margin down 69% thats not number one in business, sales maybe with the help of partially owned chinese subsidiaries . ALso note that the goverment picked gm to suceed with BK, bailout from tax payers and incentives while Ford has not filed BK or taken the huge handout they are making more money 3 years later

oopsy more Gm tidbits


As of February 2012 General Motors has only paid back Uncle Sam $26-billion of the $49.5-billion in bailout money they received. They also accumulated $13-billion in stock losses and reported record profits of $7.6-billion in 2011. This means that for every $1 of profit, the U.S. government paid $4. Taxpayers also spent another $27-billion to buy General Motors stock and currently own about 30% of the company in stock. 47,500 blue-collar workers will be receiving profit sharing checks of up to $7,000.

Updated on Monday, February 20 2012 at 10:52PM EST
Source: www.cbsnews.com/...
Collections: federal government


church!

preach!

So GM isn't the #1 in the world? After being on the verge of not existing

haha you are doing a good little republican job, shitting on any sign of recovery.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/business/gm-back-on-top-in-world-automaking.html

cheekynffc wrote:

Farmer1906 wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

wouldn't it be nice if americans didn't make billions by putting 101 millions in a Cayman Island bank account, out of the country, while probably distorting their income to further cheat the tax payer, while also attempting to lie about the value of their house, once against screwing the system (and our economy).

Ya, but lets keep living in fantasy land and act like our country didn't collapse in 2007 to 2008.

Why are so you against making money? Is cause your poor and don't want people to be successful? I don't get it.

And you wanna know why it collapsed? Because people spent money they didn't have. All the car manufacturers. All the people that got loans and houses they had couldn't afford.

global economics aren't as simple as this unfortunately. the whole economy was built on debt, if people don't spend money they don't have there is nothing to support growth in business so the honeypot still dries up and we still have a recession.

the economy was brought to it's knees by institutionalised greed and corruption in the finance sector and compounded by western governments being in the banks pockets and allowing them to run amok unregulated. when major international banks are doing things like investing in hedge funds and toxic debts with the one hand, and betting on those hedge funds to fail with the other, the economy was essentially brought down by a series of systematic frauds. those bankers should be in federal pokey, never mind losing their bonuses.

you are right chewy and guess who is voting against regulating the greedy sector?

Cu Bu wrote:

Cu Bu wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

Farmer1906 wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

so Farmer do you know what Rick Perry did with the stimulus package?
he claimed he would fight it

then he took 416 million and balanced the budget in Texas.
He then ran as president claiming he balanced the texas budget.

Thanks for making this easy.

I guess you want GM out of business and 2 million more people out of business along with the 10 million jobs Bush lost.

the DOW is at 13,200. You clearly don't understand how far we have come since Bushs economic collapse.

Not only does this not address the video, but its not even accurate.

Come on bird. Tell me your thoughts on the video.

whats not accurate?

Perry DID DO THAT
GM IS #1
DOW IS AT 13,200

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304746604577381630912081096.html
gm profit margin down 69% thats not number one in business, sales maybe with the help of partially owned chinese subsidiaries . ALso note that the goverment picked gm to suceed with BK, bailout from tax payers and incentives while Ford has not filed BK or taken the huge handout they are making more money 3 years later

oopsy more Gm tidbits


As of February 2012 General Motors has only paid back Uncle Sam $26-billion of the $49.5-billion in bailout money they received. They also accumulated $13-billion in stock losses and reported record profits of $7.6-billion in 2011. This means that for every $1 of profit, the U.S. government paid $4. Taxpayers also spent another $27-billion to buy General Motors stock and currently own about 30% of the company in stock. 47,500 blue-collar workers will be receiving profit sharing checks of up to $7,000.

Updated on Monday, February 20 2012 at 10:52PM EST
Source: www.cbsnews.com/...
Collections: federal government


church!

preach!

bird your not getting it, taxpayer money and government hand in pot is only reason gm survived. Government should not pick the winners in free trade correct? GM is running negative profit margin because they didnt do much to change their business plan. What about all the share holders that got nothing is that fair? The good thing it did was save 150,000 jobs the bad thing it did was spend billions and set yet another precedence about government involvement in free trade.

no your not getting it, the economy had collapsed, GM was on the verge of dying. Banks couldn't loan money because the housing market had collapsed, which the banks were heavily tied too.

Lets not forget all of this happened under Bush.
Mitt Romney suggested we let GM go into bankruptcy in a time when no banks would have loaned the money to keep the company and 2 million jobs afloat.

Obama followed through with the only logical thing to do and extended the Bush bailout, his auto bailout saved the industry, have fun attacking that and supporting the guy who said we should have let GM die.

Oh ya about that Bail out, and TARP, guess who voted for all of that, guess who took those funds gladly ?

Paul Ryan.

Bird, why did the housing market collapse?

The housing market experienced modest but steady growth from the period of 1995 to 1999. When the stock market crashed in 2000, there was a shift in dollars going away from the stock market into housing. To further fuel the housing bubble there was plenty of cheap money available for new loans in the wake of the economic recession. The federal reserve and banks praised the housing market for helping to create wealth and provide a secured asset that people could borrow money to help the economy grow.

There was a lot of financial innovation at the time which included all sorts of new lending types such as interest adjustable loans, interest only loans and zero down loans. As people saw housing prices going up, they were stepping over each other to buy to get in on the action. Some were flipping homes in an effort to take advantage of market conditions. If you understand fractional banking, you would know that with a 10% reserve requirement, in theory it would means that 10 times that money can be created for each dollar. With 0% down needed to buy new homes, an unlimited supply of money could be created. With each loan, banks would quickly securitize the loan and pass the risk off to someone else. Ratings agencies put AAA ratings on these loans that made them highly desirable to foreign investors and pension funds. The total amount of derivatives held by the financial institutions exploded and the total % cash reserves grew smaller and smaller.

In large areas of CA and FL there were multiple years of prices going up 20% per year. Some markets like Las Vegas saw the housing market climb up 40% in just one year. In California, over ½ of the new loans were interest only or negative-amortization. From 2003 to 2007 the amount of subprime loans had increased a whooping 292% from 332 billion to 1.3 trillion.


What ya gonna try to blame Clinton for something Bush fucked up? Of course you are, your feeble


The housing market peaked somewhere in 2006. We were beginning to see some of the early signs of trouble when some types of subprime loans started to go into default. There wasn’t worry at that time since never in history have prices for housing market gone down nationally. Once the credit markets froze in the summer 2007, things began to deteriorate rapidly. Subprime credit stopped completely and interest rates for credit for other types of borrowing including corporate loans as well as consumer loans rose dramatically.
Timeline of Events for 2007

February: Freddie Mac announced that they were no longer buying the most risky subprime.
April: Subprime lender New Century Financial Corporation files for bankruptcy.
June: Bear Stearns announced a loan of 3.2 billion dollars to help bailout one of its funds that invested in collateralized debt obligations (CDOs).
July: The stock market hit a new all-high over 14,000. On July 31, Bear Stearns liquidates two of its mortgage-back security hedge funds
August: A worldwide credit crunch had begun and there were no subprime loans available. Subprime lender American Home Mortgage files for bankruptcy. This marked the start of the housing market crash
September: The Libor rate rises to its highest level since December of 1998, at 6.8%.
December: The stock market finishes the year at 13,264.
Timeline of Events for 2008

January 11: Bank of America acquired Countrywide financial for 4.1 billion dollars. Countrywide had a total of 1.5 trillion dollars worth of loans.
March 16: Bear Stearns on the verge of bankruptcy signs a merger agreement with J.P. Morgan to sell itself for $2 a share which was fraction of the current trading price.
May 19: The markets had its final day above 13,000 closing at 13028.
September 6: The treasury announced a takeover of both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that had over 5 trillion dollars in mortgages.
September 14: Bank of America signs a deal to acquire Merrill Lynch.
September 15: Lehman Brothers files for bankruptcy. The Dow drops 400 points closing at 10,917
September 17: The federal reserves lends $85 billion dollars to American International Group (AIG).
September 18: Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary meet with congress to propose a $700 billion dollar bailout. Bernanke tells congress “If we don’t do this, we may not have an economy on Monday.”
September 26: Federal regulators seize Washington Mutual and then strike a deal to sell most of to J.P. Morgan for 1.9 billion dollars. This represents the largest bank failure in U.S. history.
September 29: Congress votes down the $700 billion bailout plan. That same day Citigroup acquires Wachovia.
October 1: The Senate passes the $700 billion bailout bill.
October 3: The house passes the $700 billion bailout plan and the president signs it into law.
October 6: The fed announces that it will provide $900 billion in short-term loans to banks. The Dow closes below 10,000.
October 7: The fed announced that it will lend around 1.3 trillion dollars directly to companies outside the banking sector.
October 10: The Dow closes at 8451, the stock market has had its worst week ever losing 22% over the past 8 trading days or 8.4 trillion dollars from the market highs in 2007.
October 14: The Treasury taps $250 billion of the bailout fund and uses the money to shore up the nations top banks.
December 31: There were over 3 million foreclosures by this year. Florida, Arizona and California had rates of 4% with Nevada at 7.3%
The aftermath

Even though the financial crisis was resolved by start of 2009 the housing market continued to decline throughout 2009. There were over 3 million foreclosure filings for 2009. Unemployment rose to over 10% and the housing market crash created the worst recession since the early 1980’s. By the 4th quarter of 2009 the U.S. has experienced significant GDP growth and corporate earnings had increased by over 100%. The Unemployment Rate had stabilized towards the end of 2009. By 2010 housing prices still haven’t gone up and we are still working through a surplus of housing inventory.

Your little article is nice and yes it was due to terrible loans. Do you know why the loans were made?