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 TSA catches another terrorist

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Birdofthad
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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 1:44 pm

oggy 1 terrorist attack killed 3,000 people, I know thats hard to grasp because you are positive our government is to blame, but you need to wake up to this reality.

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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 2:09 pm

bobbitt15 wrote:
I'm not sure promoting healthy debates equates to spewing everything you believe and not listening to a word anyone else has to say, and viewing them as someone incapable of seeing things with an "open mind" if they aren't all aboard the train

i am listening to what others have to say. i just don't agree with it. And if i offend you by sharing my opinion on a subject, quite frankly i don't really give a fuck, no offense. That is what this is for right?

And similar things get thrown at me all the time. If i had a nickle for every time someone has called me crazy or a conspiracy theorist or paranoid on here i'd have a shit load of nickels by now. Goes with the territory. If im not supposed to get offended by someone saying im a crazy tin-foil hat wearing nut job, then don't get mad when i call you out for following propaganda and supporting a corrupt establishment. It's your opinion of me, and mine of you. I try to shed light on why i have arrived on my opinions, and others do their best to debunk them and prove me wrong.



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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 2:20 pm

Birdofthad wrote:
oggy 1 terrorist attack killed 3,000 people, I know thats hard to grasp because you are positive our government is to blame, but you need to wake up to this reality.

umm you don't have to fucking tell me shit about 911, i've been to ground zero several times and met and spoke with several victims family members and professional architects, engineers, demolition experts, physicists, fire fighters, first responders etc. who support a new investigation that follows the National Standards and has Contempt and Subpoena powers.

That shit happened in my back yard bro, don't tell me i don't understand what happened on that day. I've done more research and studying of this than i would like to admit, and my conclusion is that we do not have the full truth. You can believe that makes me a horrible person or whatever, but i'd rather stand up for what is right then just go with the flow and not ask questions, serious questions that have serious implications. So believe what you want, but everything you are spewing is nothing but 100% regurgitated establishment bs and that has been playing like a broken record. That stuff is definitely not gonna change my mind one bit.
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Birdofthad
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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 2:22 pm

oggy420 wrote:
Birdofthad wrote:
oggy 1 terrorist attack killed 3,000 people, I know thats hard to grasp because you are positive our government is to blame, but you need to wake up to this reality.

umm you don't have to fucking tell me shit about 911, i've been to ground zero several times and met and spoke with several victims family members and professional architects, engineers, demolition experts, physicists, fire fighters, first responders etc. who support a new investigation that follows the National Standards and has Contempt and Subpoena powers.

That shit happened in my back yard bro, don't tell me i don't understand what happened on that day. I've done more research and studying of this than i would like to admit, and my conclusion is that we do not have the full truth. You can believe that makes me a horrible person or whatever, but i'd rather stand up for what is right then just go with the flow and not ask questions, serious questions that have serious implications. So believe what you want, but everything you are spewing is nothing but 100% regurgitated establishment bs and that has been playing like a broken record. That stuff is definitely not gonna change my mind one bit.


so you understand the implications of 9-11 and what you took away from that was we don't really need security and counter terrorism?

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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm

jesus christ... stop twisting my words

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Birdofthad
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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 2:46 pm

oggy Im not twisting your words, you bash the TSA, maybe you don't realize what their actual job is because you just say they are there to molest you but this all ties back to protecting people.

Same as the law Obama passed making it legal to determine american citizens enemy combatants. Im not putting words in your mouth. Your bitching about the programs put in place to try and keep people safe so that hopefully three thousand americans aren't murdered again by a foreign terrorist cell, on a single day. You can't have it both ways.

You don't like the TSA or these new laws but you don't think of the implications of not having security and just allowing americans to leave this country, declare war on this country, then use that airplane with no security and there american citizenship to get back into the country. I don't think you get that 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9-11 were from Saudi Arabia for a reason. The rest were from Egypt and United Arab Emirates. Its easier for people from those countries to gain access than someone from say, Yemen (like Al-Khatani and the reason he was denied entry). Richard Reid was from Britian, you may not be aware but there is Al-Amriki an american citizen running around with Al-Shabaab Al Qaeda, he is a big threat. The mouth piece of Al Qaeda (the blown up AL Awlaki) there most important cleric, was an american citizen. The religious cleric that issued the fatwa to blow up the World Trade Centers was sitting inside his mosque in New York when the FBI arrested him (Abdul "The Blind Sheik" Rahman).
That is why these laws are in place oggy, trying to prevent the "lone wolf", ya you call it fear mongering and war propaganda but it isn't. Im just telling you the straight facts. Im not George Bush over here trying to Saddam Hussein someone, but I also don't live in a fantasy land where I think these people will just leave us alone if we leave them alone. There will always be a radical cleric with a weird distortion and interpretation of Islam, history shows us that (7th and 14th Century).
You have to realize after the 1993 WTC bombing our government had a false sense of security. They thought our government could handle terrorism as-was and they thought they had enough funds appropriated to counter terrorism. Do you know that before 9-11 the government spent 15 times the amount that they were spending on counter-terrorism as they were on (FBI and CIA) on mafia and drug related cases. That was before 9-11, know I think some things went to far, Patriot Act, but there are some things that are worth implementing, the TSA being one of them IMO.

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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 2:50 pm

you say keep safe, i say violate civil liberties. If i had the choice between the maximum amount of freedom, and a maximum amount of security, freedom always wins in my book. You should never have to sacrifice liberty for security, never.
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Birdofthad
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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 3:05 pm

oggy420 wrote:
you say keep safe, i say violate civil liberties. If i had the choice between the maximum amount of freedom, and a maximum amount of security, freedom always wins in my book. You should never have to sacrifice liberty for security, never.

you should never have to sacrifice yourself and jump from your burning office building, especially if our government can take reasonable means to provide safety that could have and will help prevent terrorist attacks inside the United States.

Since 1975 there has been 3 terrorist attacks in the USA. The 1993 WWTC attack (first terrorist attack on american soil), the 1995 Oklahoma City Bombing (american citizen) and 9-11.
Then there is the failed car bomb that was ignited and failed to detonate at Times Square in 2010, there is the man that we caught (Ressam) who had enough explosives to carry out his plan of blowing up LAX on the eve of the 2000 millennium. Jose Padilla (Bush called him a dirty bomber, probably just a bomber), Then we have the AQ wanna be who tried to blow up the sky scraper in Dallas, then there is the FED EX bombs that luckily did not detonate, added in with the underwear bomber and the shoe bomber.

Are you seeing a pattern here. All of these incidents except for one of them were tied to a terrorist organization from a foreign country, all of those attacks except for 2 were carried out, attempted or supported by Al Qaeda. This is a serious legitimate threat and we have done a very good job of preventing these attacks from happening after 9-11.

Do you know what has been the one constant in all of these attacks accept for OKC Bombing? AIR LINE TRAVEL WAS REQUIRED IN ALL OF THEM. We aren't just heightening air port security because we think its a fun idea.

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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 3:20 pm

well me and you have different opinions on 911, remember? I don't support perpetual war and military intervention causing blow back. That is what puts us at risk of being attacked, even the CIA admitted so.

Ok so im assuming you believe all terrorists hate us for our freedom and prosperity right? So the fact that our foreign policy and backing different dictators, not respecting Palestine as a Country, invading and bombing nations and destroying a countries infrastructure based on lies of wmd's, stealing natural resources, isn't going to factor into how people in the middle east feel about us? Even a little?

Look i don't believe we need to be violating peoples constitutional rights to defend the home land. There are better, more morally acceptable ways of doing it rather than groping little kids and telling everyone to spy on their neighbors.

I think if we brought the troops home, ended our over seas empire, focused on returning to fiscal sanity, and limited the role of government to protecting liberty, and the role laid out for the Federal Gov in the Constitution, with emphasis on the states having a lot more freedom in social laws and such, we could be a lot safer and a lot more prosperous. I don't think you realize the financial burden our over seas's empire has here at home. That is the biggest threat to our security in all reality. The debt.
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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 3:58 pm

oggy420 wrote:
well me and you have different opinions on 911, remember? I don't support perpetual war and military intervention causing blow back. That is what puts us at risk of being attacked, even the CIA admitted so.

Ok so im assuming you believe all terrorists hate us for our freedom and prosperity right? So the fact that our foreign policy and backing different dictators, not respecting Palestine as a Country, invading and bombing nations and destroying a countries infrastructure based on lies of wmd's, stealing natural resources, isn't going to factor into how people in the middle east feel about us? Even a little?

Look i don't believe we need to be violating peoples constitutional rights to defend the home land. There are better, more morally acceptable ways of doing it rather than groping little kids and telling everyone to spy on their neighbors.

I think if we brought the troops home, ended our over seas empire, focused on returning to fiscal sanity, and limited the role of government to protecting liberty, and the role laid out for the Federal Gov in the Constitution, with emphasis on the states having a lot more freedom in social laws and such, we could be a lot safer and a lot more prosperous. I don't think you realize the financial burden our over seas's empire has here at home. That is the biggest threat to our security in all reality. The debt.

so you think we should just let AL Qaeda get away with the crimes they commit?

Hahahah lmao at your second paragraph, you obviously havent been reading anything I post if you did you would know that I laugh at anyone who claims terrorist hate us because of "our freedoms". I know what the 1996 Bin Laden Fatwa was all about, do you? It all has to do with Saudi Arabia, a country that had kicked Bin Laden out, and hosted our military. It all deals with the Gulf War after effects, and basically oggy, who the fuck is Bin Laden to tell a nation that he has been expelled from (for being a terrorist) that they can't have a deal with the USA because it pisses him off from a cave in Afghanistan. Thats what happened and thats who you defend when you claim "we are in their land and thats why they hate us." Get something straight Oggy, we are friends with Britian, France, Canada, etc. They have embassies. Are they invading our land? We were in these countries because we had contracts with them and they wanted us there. Al Qaeda attacked us there (1998, 2000) and then on or home land (2001). Al Qaeda does not have a host country at the moment but they are in multiple countries.

I am for the 2 state solution. Israel and Palestine, ya know what happened, all of the arab world refused to accept the existence of Israel. Over the last 50 years we have done a good job of getting Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, even Syria, on lowering their hard line nut job stance on Israel. THat is a good thing, that is why we want a friendly Iraq, and an Afghanistan that isn't a fucking training ground for jihad (60,000 trained in Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001).

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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 4:20 pm

Bird is intellectually dishonest, possibly intellectually bankrupt.



Oggy says : our foreign policy causes hatred and fear of the US

Bird says : ANTI SEMITE

Oggy says : the TSA and government are using exaggerated fears of a real, but relatively small risk to infringe on civil rights

Bird says : HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN? 3000 DEAD!!!!!!!!!! ANTI SEMITE!!!!!!

Oggy says : terrorism isn't as big of a risk as falling meteors, drunk drivers, gangs, or other things that have killed as many or more people in the US.

Bird says : SO 9-11 DIDNT HAPPEN DID IT MOTHERFUCKER YOURE A NUTJOB ANTI SEMITE!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 4:23 pm

Im not calling him an anti semite, Im calling you one moron

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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 4:26 pm

Wolfgangsta wrote:
Bird is intellectually dishonest, possibly intellectually bankrupt.



Oggy says : our foreign policy causes hatred and fear of the US

Bird says : ANTI SEMITE

Oggy says : the TSA and government are using exaggerated fears of a real, but relatively small risk to infringe on civil rights

Bird says : HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN? 3000 DEAD!!!!!!!!!! ANTI SEMITE!!!!!!

Oggy says : terrorism isn't as big of a risk as falling meteors, drunk drivers, gangs, or other things that have killed as many or more people in the US.

Bird says : SO 9-11 DIDNT HAPPEN DID IT MOTHERFUCKER YOURE A NUTJOB ANTI SEMITE!!!!

You don't like the TSA or these new laws but you don't think of the implications of not having security and just allowing americans to leave this country, declare war on this country, then use that airplane with no security and there american citizenship to get back into the country. I don't think you get that 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9-11 were from Saudi Arabia for a reason. The rest were from Egypt and United Arab Emirates. Its easier for people from those countries to gain access than someone from say, Yemen (like Al-Khatani and the reason he was denied entry). Richard Reid was from Britian, you may not be aware but there is Al-Amriki an american citizen running around with Al-Shabaab Al Qaeda, he is a big threat. The mouth piece of Al Qaeda (the blown up AL Awlaki) there most important cleric, was an american citizen. The religious cleric that issued the fatwa to blow up the World Trade Centers was sitting inside his mosque in New York when the FBI arrested him (Abdul "The Blind Sheik" Rahman).
That is why these laws are in place oggy, trying to prevent the "lone wolf", ya you call it fear mongering and war propaganda but it isn't. Im just telling you the straight facts. Im not George Bush over here trying to Saddam Hussein someone, but I also don't live in a fantasy land where I think these people will just leave us alone if we leave them alone. There will always be a radical cleric with a weird distortion and interpretation of Islam, history shows us that (7th and 14th Century).
You have to realize after the 1993 WTC bombing our government had a false sense of security. They thought our government could handle terrorism as-was and they thought they had enough funds appropriated to counter terrorism. Do you know that before 9-11 the government spent 15 times the amount that they were spending on counter-terrorism as they were on (FBI and CIA) on mafia and drug related cases. That was before 9-11, know I think some things went to far, Patriot Act, but there are some things that are worth implementing, the TSA being one of them IMO.


I think you need to read this again.

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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 4:28 pm

Quote :
so you think we should just let AL Qaeda get away with the crimes they commit?

No. Use international courts and the rule of international law to prosecute them. Criminal behavior. If we blow up a bunch of people we just validate the crazy shit they say. We fulfill their prophecy.


The crips and the bloods have killed more than 15,000 people in the last 30 years in the USA. But, since they're black, no one cares about those deaths.


America GET YOUR PRIORITIES IN ORDER!
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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 4:30 pm

and you can call me crazy for supporting a foreign policy of peace, free trade, and nonaggression / nonintervention. But this is what Ron Paul has been speaking off, and it is clear the troops who are actually fighting these wars, overwhelmingly support Ron Paul's foreign policy compared to the establishments foreign policy. So i have the troops backing my argument, and you have Washington bureaucrats, special interests and lobbyists for the Military Industrial Complex supporting yours. I like where i stand.
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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 5:35 pm

Wolfgangsta wrote:
Quote :
so you think we should just let AL Qaeda get away with the crimes they commit?

No. Use international courts and the rule of international law to prosecute them. Criminal behavior. If we blow up a bunch of people we just validate the crazy shit they say. We fulfill their prophecy.


The crips and the bloods have killed more than 15,000 people in the last 30 years in the USA. But, since they're black, no one cares about those deaths.


America GET YOUR PRIORITIES IN ORDER!

so wolfs stance is forget terrorism lets focus on locking up the crips and bloods.

I guess there can't be a world where we fucking do both

But wolf what about the rights of the crips and bloods that your going to be violating?

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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 5:51 pm

oggy420 wrote:
and you can call me crazy for supporting a foreign policy of peace, free trade, and nonaggression / nonintervention. But this is what Ron Paul has been speaking off, and it is clear the troops who are actually fighting these wars, overwhelmingly support Ron Paul's foreign policy compared to the establishments foreign policy. So i have the troops backing my argument, and you have Washington bureaucrats, special interests and lobbyists for the Military Industrial Complex supporting yours. I like where i stand.

you don't though, you obviously have a problem with brokered peace between USA and Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt, United Arab Emirates, Turkey and Jordan. Either that or you don't know what the hell you are talking about because thats what we have as a result of our middle eastern policy. You know defending jewish people from slaughter, helping middle eastern countries when they are invaded by a fucking lunatic.

We are so bad.

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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 5:58 pm

lol im the one saying end the wars, you're the one saying we need more wars, and you are actually trying to say i don't stand for peace because i don't believe the lies that every single thing we've done in the middle east has been great and they clearly love us for it?

We have a very flawed foreign policy. If it doesn't change we will bankrupt this country. Well more bankrupt than we already are...
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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 6:06 pm

oggy420 wrote:
lol im the one saying end the wars, you're the one saying we need more wars, and you are actually trying to say i don't stand for peace because i don't believe the lies that every single thing we've done in the middle east has been great and they clearly love us for it?

We have a very flawed foreign policy. If it doesn't change we will bankrupt this country. Well more bankrupt than we already are...

who's putting words in people mouths now?

WHere do I call for more wars oggy? no where.

I am all for the war on Al Qaeda and that is war where we systematically target them and this is a war we have been n for 10 years. Nothing new there. I am not for setting up another front on a larger scale that is a much better place to fight an urban insurgency (Iraq).

You can't comprehend that you can be for killing terrorist and against more wars.

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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 6:12 pm

Ali damn it evoke yourself into this discussion, we need a 3rd party non american perspective lol

simply saying Bird is right will suffice as it will over rule Wolfs declaration

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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 6:13 pm

and oggy I will make a deal with you I will read whatever I mean whatever stuff you want me to read that support your psitions if you will read two books.

"The Looming Tower" and "The Black Banners"


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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 6:37 pm

oggy420 wrote:
you say keep safe, i say violate civil liberties. If i had the choice between the maximum amount of freedom, and a maximum amount of security, freedom always wins in my book. You should never have to sacrifice liberty for security, never.


hahah ok oggy set up your own airline where anyone can get on board and bring whatever the hell they went on board, and do whatever the hell they want on board and see how well that goes.

Thats what you said, straight from the horses mouth, maximum freedom

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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 9:43 pm

Birdofthad wrote:
Wolfgangsta wrote:
Quote :
so you think we should just let AL Qaeda get away with the crimes they commit?

No. Use international courts and the rule of international law to prosecute them. Criminal behavior. If we blow up a bunch of people we just validate the crazy shit they say. We fulfill their prophecy.


The crips and the bloods have killed more than 15,000 people in the last 30 years in the USA. But, since they're black, no one cares about those deaths.


America GET YOUR PRIORITIES IN ORDER!

so wolfs stance is forget terrorism lets focus on locking up the crips and bloods.

I guess there can't be a world where we fucking do both

But wolf what about the rights of the crips and bloods that your going to be violating?

A specific, clearly defined policy with specific limits and a finite time limitation that could never be expanded beyond the scope of the specific problems of violent gangs in ghettos. Very specific language to prevent these from being used later by a police state or to infringe on the rights of Americans in open ended fear policies like the searching of little kids in wheelchairs by the gov at airports. Unlike the anti-terror laws which have ambiguous scope and perpetual jurisdiction, these policies would not be open ended.

The constitution forbids US troops from being deployed inside the borders of the US. And that should ABSOLUTELY be respected. Since I would bring all of our troops home, slash tons of spending and shrink the military, there would be soldiers in need of work who already have Team America World Police training. Some units I would transfer over to state and civil authorities. Neighborhoods and communities where there are high numbers of crimes that assault the life, liberty, personal property or freedom of other American citizens, would be patrolled and protected by these police. They would NOT be allowed to have any powers that police do not currently have under the constitution, they would simply be an armed presence in the areas that are unsafe for people to travel through. Where there are high numbers of murders or robberies.

Oggy, how would you feel about this idea? A wild-west environment like the inner city is more of a violation of libertarian principles than this don't you think?

This would coincide with the end of illegal drug and prostitution prohibition. Street gangs and the culture that funnels minorities, especially blacks into gangs will lose significant power once the black market for drugs and prostitution is eliminated. Street gangs are criminal enterprises above all else. When their revenue stream is destroyed and they have nothing to shoot each other over, they'll stop shooting.







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Wolfgangsta
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PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 9:47 pm

I could go into what I would do that no political party would do to address poverty and social problems in the ghettos that could be easily funded with the slashing of spending. The gang issue opened a can of worms.
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oggy420
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TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: TSA catches another terrorist   TSA catches another terrorist - Page 2 EmptyMon Mar 19, 2012 10:19 pm

Birdofthad wrote:
oggy420 wrote:
you say keep safe, i say violate civil liberties. If i had the choice between the maximum amount of freedom, and a maximum amount of security, freedom always wins in my book. You should never have to sacrifice liberty for security, never.


hahah ok oggy set up your own airline where anyone can get on board and bring whatever the hell they went on board, and do whatever the hell they want on board and see how well that goes.

Thats what you said, straight from the horses mouth, maximum freedom

i said if i had to choose one or the other, i would choose freedom over a police state. That doesn't mean i don't think there is a role for Gov, defense and security. Not what i am saying. There definitely is a role for defense and intelligence, but they must play by the rules like everyone else, and respect constitutional rights and civil liberties. I am 100 percent against torture, secret arrests, secret military prisons, FEMA camps, and other things along those lines. Those are not characteristics of a morally good free society. More like authoritarian, you add the huge power grab started under Bush, then ramped up 10x by Obama, and now the executive branch is now the judge, jury, executioner and due process is over, just like that. I will never agree with these things.

Oh yea those who said i was crazy for saying Obama was anti-2nd amendment, look up the video of Eric Holder in 95 literally saying he wanted to brain wash the public with anti-gun ad's similar to the one's being used against Cigarettes.
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