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 WEC Takeover

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PostSubject: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptySat Aug 06, 2011 12:35 pm

Very quietly the WEC has inserted some top guys at some top positions.

Stann, Sonnen, & Condit are all one win away from title shots most likely.

Then you have a string of LWs who are doing well.

Pettis who is 0-1, but could be back into contention with a few more wins.
Bendo has looked great so far and has a huge fight with Sean Sherk coming up.
Cerrone is a quick 2-0 and facing one of the UFC's top young talents in Olivera.
Castillo just ended Daddy's UFC career.

Count me as one who underestimated the WEC talent.

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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptySat Aug 06, 2011 12:53 pm

I thought Bendo was fighting Jim Miller?
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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptySat Aug 06, 2011 12:57 pm

i know it's not sherk
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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptySat Aug 06, 2011 1:02 pm

You're right it is Miller. Someone on WIKI put Bendo v Sherk. Still a huge fight.
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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptySat Aug 06, 2011 2:54 pm

while i agree with sonnen being legit and one of the elite in the division, im not to sure the rest will rise. sonnen,stann and condit all suffered losses in their first match in the ufc post wec. sonnen did rise to the top (suprisingly) and defeated top guys but then came the whole roids thing. stann is on a rise and imo is an awesome exciting fighter but lets be real, he will have his first real test among the elite in sonnen and dudes last lost was to a wrestler. as for condit, well i liked him in the wec.wasnt too impressed in his fights against martin,jake and rory even though they were exciting but what made me not want to be a fan of his anymore was when he ducked fitch. after that i think most are riding the train from his last to ko's. i dont think he has the skill enough to beat bj or any of the top wws. until he does then maybe i'll jump back on the fan train

to sum it up wec was good and had good fighters but as the game evolves the fighters must too.in stanns next fight we will get to see if he can take the preasure a wrestler will put on him . for condits next fight we will see how he does against one of the top guys. only time will tell

as for pettis, well guida is only a gatekeeper. the top of the division is made up of great wrestlers. dudes got some sick stand up but in mma thats only one part of the game. dont see him being able to hold his own against the elite in the division. neither would cerrone. against another good exciting fighters but the level of talent he has been facing just isnt at convicing enough to lead us to believe he would be a top guy. also castillo didnt end joes career , it was vasquez and joe daddy best days were long gone by then.

on a side note i do have faith in bendo. dudes well rounded and bocek is no slouch. i must say he has been the most impessive of all. i do see him one day being able to be among the elite but once again only time will tell.
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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptySun Aug 07, 2011 2:22 am

Since when is Guida a gatekeeper? Dude is being talked about for possible title contention after the winner of Bendo/Miller since he has a more impressive string of fights than Miller does in the UFC.
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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptySun Aug 07, 2011 2:43 am

Me thinks people are talking up Guida to save face and keep the Pettis hype alive.

He has better wins than Jim Miller, yes...but its still same old Clay Guida despite people acting like Guida has morphed into super shredder.

Same old Clay Guida is an excellent fighter..but a gatekeeper. He may get a shot since LW lacks many clear cut contenders but he'll never be a champion. If he does become a champ..damn did that division hit a wall.

As for the WEC guys..don't count Sonnen..he fought 3 times in the UFC before going to WEC and returning to the UFC.

Condit is the only one i view as a legit contender.
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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptySun Aug 07, 2011 2:51 am

Condit obv, Pettis and Bendo could make waves, outside that eh, not a Cerrone guy.
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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptySun Aug 07, 2011 3:14 pm

KingsOwn19 wrote:
Me thinks people are talking up Guida to save face and keep the Pettis hype alive.

He has better wins than Jim Miller, yes...but its still same old Clay Guida despite people acting like Guida has morphed into super shredder.

Same old Clay Guida is an excellent fighter..but a gatekeeper. He may get a shot since LW lacks many clear cut contenders but he'll never be a champion. If he does become a champ..damn did that division hit a wall.

As for the WEC guys..don't count Sonnen..he fought 3 times in the UFC before going to WEC and returning to the UFC.

Condit is the only one i view as a legit contender.

The Guida that fought Diego Sanchez was a gatekeeper. The one that beat Gomi and Pettis is a way less exciting fighter, teetering on boredom who's much more cut out for a legitimate run. His timing on shots has improved tenfold and he's pretty content with being a top control guy now
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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptySun Aug 07, 2011 4:12 pm

bobbitt15 wrote:
KingsOwn19 wrote:
Me thinks people are talking up Guida to save face and keep the Pettis hype alive.

He has better wins than Jim Miller, yes...but its still same old Clay Guida despite people acting like Guida has morphed into super shredder.

Same old Clay Guida is an excellent fighter..but a gatekeeper. He may get a shot since LW lacks many clear cut contenders but he'll never be a champion. If he does become a champ..damn did that division hit a wall.

As for the WEC guys..don't count Sonnen..he fought 3 times in the UFC before going to WEC and returning to the UFC.

Condit is the only one i view as a legit contender.

The Guida that fought Diego Sanchez was a gatekeeper. The one that beat Gomi and Pettis is a way less exciting fighter, teetering on boredom who's much more cut out for a legitimate run. His timing on shots has improved tenfold and he's pretty content with being a top control guy now

Excellent breakdown on Guida. I'd take Guida over Diego, Tyson, & Huerta in rematches with the way he fights now.
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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptyWed Aug 10, 2011 12:10 pm

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/8/10/2354281/wec-ufc-lightweights-ufc-on-versus

Donald Cerrone - UFC record: 2-0. WEC record: 6-3 (1 NC). Wins: Paul Kelly, UFC 126; Vagner Rocha, UFC 131. 1 Fight of the Night Bonus (75k). Next bout: Charles Oliveira, UFC on Versus 5


Danny Castillo - UFC record: 1-0. WEC record: 5-3. Wins: Joe Stevenson, UFC on Versus 3. Next bout: Jacob Volkmann, UFC on Versus 5.


Ben Henderson - Record in UFC record 1-0. WEC record 5-1. Wins: Mark Bocek, UFC 129. Next opponent: Jim Miller, UFC on Versus 5.


Anthony Njokuani - UFC record 1-1. WEC record 4-3. Wins: Andre Winner, UFC 132. Losses: Edson Barboza, UFC 128. 1 Fight of the Night Bonus (70k). No scheduled opponent.


Shane Roller - UFC record 1-1. WEC record 6-2. Wins: Thiago Tavares, UFC on Versus 3. Losses: Melvin Guillard, UFC 132. 1 Knockout of the Night bonus (40k). No scheduled opponent.


Anthony Pettis - UFC record 0-1. WEC record 5-1. Losses: Clay Guida, TUF 13 Finale. Next opponent: Jeremy Stephens, UFC 136


Kamal Shalorus - UFC record 0-1. WEC record 3-0-1. Losses: Jim Miller, UFC 128. No scheduled opponent.


Maciej Jewtuszko - UFC record 0-1. WEC record 1-0. Losses: Curt Warburton, UFC 127. Released by promotion.


Danny Downes - UFC record 0-1. WEC record 1-1. Losses:Jeremy Stephens, TUF 13 Finale. Next opponent: Ramsey Nijem, UFC 137


Edward Faaloloto - UFC record 0-1. WEC record 0-1. Losses: Michael Johnson, UFC on Versus 4. Next opponent: Terry Etim, UFC 138

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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptyWed Aug 10, 2011 12:47 pm

Not to be picky, but Javi Vasquez ended Joe Daddy's career.
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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptyWed Aug 10, 2011 12:49 pm

Ninja\Rua/Fan wrote:
Not to be picky, but Javi Vasquez ended Joe Daddy's career.
You mean he blew away Joe's final stand. He was already rolling downhill.
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PostSubject: Re: WEC Takeover   WEC Takeover EmptyThu Aug 11, 2011 2:28 pm

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/8/11/2356338/analyzing-the-ufc-wec-merger-after-eight-months
by Tim Burke
August 18th, 2010 - WEC bantamweight champion Dominick Cruz makes a title defense against Joseph Benavidez on Versus.

October 1st, 2011 - UFC bantamweight champion Dominick Cruz makes a title defense against Demetrious Johnson on Versus.

What's wrong with this picture, folks? A whole lot.

As your resident WEC homer, I argued against the UFC/WEC merger from
day one. I believed that the merger was done simply so the UFC had two
more belts to prop up pay-per-views with. I believed that the 135 and
145 divisions didn't have the foundation yet to stand upright in an
organization that was now promoting seven divisions. I didn't even
believe that the WEC guys were going to get the big paydays that they
richly deserved once they donned UFC gloves. I was the definition of a
contrarian. And eight months after Fredson Paixao and Pablo Garza stepped into the cage at The Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale
to kick off a newer, lighter era of the UFC -- well, I feel the exact
same way about everything. And I now have stats to back it up.

In the two parts of this piece, I'll make a case that shows that
merger hasn't been all sunshine and puppies so far. I'll show that the
divisions aren't being promoted correctly, that the fighters aren't
benefiting to the degree that most expected, and even that the network
that hosted the WEC, Versus, might have got shafted by the deal they
shook hands on to make this whole thing possible. Today in part one,
we'll start out by looking at the mediums that BW/FW fights are being
shown on, and I'll explain why Facebook isn't the gold mine some people
think it is.

Item 1 - The featherweight and bantamweight divisions aren't getting enough TV/PPV time.

The UFC has promoted 180 fights spread over 16 cards since the
merger. Ten of those 16 cards have been PPV's. Here's how the number of
fights breaks down by division, and by what medium each fight was
broadcasted on. Note: "Streamed" covers Facebook, Youtube, and UFC.com streams of fights.

DivisionFightsPPVTVStreamedUnaired
BW1932104
FW2326114
LW42912138
WW3511987
MW2610844
LHW219633
HW146431


The data from the chart here should be pretty easy to figure out. A
total of three bantamweight fights and two featherweight fights were
scheduled for PPVs over the last 10 PPV events. That's less than half
of every other division, and in some cases less than 20% of what other
divisions are getting. Is that any way to promote new divisions? And
they want to add a flyweight division in the near future as well?

Fine, you say, they'll put them on TV instead. That works too, lots
of people watch Spike TV prelims. Except for the fact that the numbers
above show that these divisions aren't getting enough TV slots either.
Two bantamweight fights scheduled for TV from the 47 available slots?
Really guys?

It should be noted that some fights aren't scheduled for TV or PPV,
but end up getting shown anyway. 3 BW fights and 4 FW fights not
originally scheduled to air did make TV or PPV in some form. 6 of the 7
came from previously-aired streams, one was previously unaired. For
comparison's sake, 15 fights across the other divisions made it as well.
The points I address in part two tomorrow (namely money and
sponsorship) make these bumps moot, however.

Item 2: Sorry guys, being on Facebook isn't all it's cracked up to be.

I know some of you are ready to skip down to the comment section and
mash away on your keyboard. "But Tim, they're being shown on Facebook!
They're still getting exposure! Stop complaining!" A quick perusal of
that chart I posted above shows that the UFC is indeed putting a lot of
bantamweight and featherweight fights on Facebook. When the UFC
started broadcasting fights on Facebook I was deliriously happy, much
as you were. Hardcore fans like us get to watch every fight! Awesome!
Except for one small thing - we're generally the only ones watching.



WEC Takeover Star-divide.v777cf8a


I know this is a bit of a bubble-burster, but I've talked to a few
people that know the ins and outs of how this stuff works (including
UFC employees, off the record of course). And they all imply the same
thing - the Facebook audience is small. Surprisingly small. They can't
give any hard numbers, but they will say that the Facebook audience is a
very small percentage of the TV or PPV audience. And it makes total
sense.

Think about it - when a fight is on Spike/Ion, a few people can sit
around a TV and watch. Casuals get involved at some level in that
example. Are a few people sitting around your computer watching a
stream? No, it's usually just one person. No one is sitting at the bar
and magically notices a Facebook steam being shown there. No one is
flipping channels at home and magically comes across a stream either.
People have to seek out the platform and jump through hoops to watch.
And the general public just isn't doing that in droves.

So, let's get this straight. The UFC is choosing to lean on this
platform as a way to promote these two divisions? How is it going to
work? The main audience is people like us, the biggest fans of the
sport. And we don't matter to the bigger picture, because we're
watching no matter what. How do you get the general public to care about
135 and 145 if they're not being watched by the general public? While
Facebook is better than nothing, in many ways it's exactly the same as
nothing. I'll address a few of those ways in part two.

In the next edition of Death to the Merger, I'll come at you with
three more points that you'll probably get mad at me about. First and
foremost, I'll discuss how WEC guys aren't getting the riches that fans
expected them to once the merger went down. Second, I'll show the
optimists that the next four months aren't going to be any rosier than
the last eight for these guys. And finally, I'll show you that the
platform the WEC relied on, Versus, didn't get what they expected out of
the merger either. Stay tuned, and sharpen up those pitchforks.
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