Struve up to 262 lbs.

Anyways, in a wrestling tourney among UFC WWs GSP would indeed win that, his takedowns are setup by striking most of the time but it's not like these other wrestlers with better pre-MMA resumes are taking him down, he's developed some of the best wrestling in the game, really it's remarkable. We rally thing Kos, Fitch, Sheilds are going to outwrestle him?

Iron Mike might go all maple syrup on his ass too in K-1, size though...

LA how much wrestling wrestling have you really watched? Insofar as I go, the sport is almost unwatchable. Boring and very different from MMA "wrestling" which is mostly takedowns and scrambles. GSP is the best MMA wrestler, but I am not sure he would win a wrestling wrestling match as the rules and skillsets are more different than people realize.

OU, why do you keep saying I am a fanboy? I simply have an opinion of his skillset. You present no counter arguments besides "OMG FANBOY". Where am I wrong?

As a karate guy I'd love to say GSP has the best striking in the WW division but I just don't see it that way. If we're comparing him and Nick, he does have more complete striking, but better? IDK. GSP has become a very defensive fighter, where he's so complete everywhere he can sit back and exploit other fighters mistakes cause they can't really threaten him anywhere. But when I watch his striking its very stiff even if solid technique. A lot of it is also setup through his wrestling where guys are guessing if he's going to shoot on them.

Nick's boxing which still leaves me baffled is just him and another guy going tow to toe in the striking game, and IDK how, but he pulls it out time and time again. It's not like he's a threat for the takedown, so he really just has to outsmart and outclass guys on the feet. His boxing style is so unique it's hard to compare to anything, but he basically tricks guys into a scrap he knows he can win. If GSP were to beat Nick standing it be with a shit tons of leg kicks, but I see Nick getting him on him before that became a big problem. Nick's chin also has to be a factor.

Nick gets dropped often. GSP likely drops him as well. GSP is stiff but fast. If they were in a kickboxing ring, no way does GSP get lured into one of those Diaz shootouts. Not a chance. GSP being so defensive is exactly why he would Georgio-Mayweather these fools. No one can do what he does. His wrestling is predicated on his striking as much as vice versa.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

LA how much wrestling wrestling have you really watched? Insofar as I go, the sport is almost unwatchable. Boring and very different from MMA "wrestling" which is mostly takedowns and scrambles. GSP is the best MMA wrestler, but I am not sure he would win a wrestling wrestling match as the rules and skillsets are more different than people realize.

OU, why do you keep saying I am a fanboy? I simply have an opinion of his skillset. You present no counter arguments besides "OMG FANBOY". Where am I wrong?

Aside from wrestling 2 years in High school, I watch the NCAA's a little every year. Bu when I see GSP's wrestling in training and in the cage, then I see how he does with other top level wrestlers, I just don't see them beating him, Askren obviously then Sheilds would be the two guys that I could see beating him.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

LA how much wrestling wrestling have you really watched? Insofar as I go, the sport is almost unwatchable. Boring and very different from MMA "wrestling" which is mostly takedowns and scrambles. GSP is the best MMA wrestler, but I am not sure he would win a wrestling wrestling match as the rules and skillsets are more different than people realize.

OU, why do you keep saying I am a fanboy? I simply have an opinion of his skillset. You present no counter arguments besides "OMG FANBOY". Where am I wrong?

Really? I gave no arguments in why his stats are inflated the way they are? I didn't explain why I think his standup game is effective? I didn't do that? Check your settings, I don't think all my post are showing up.

Really his striking is setup through his wrestling then the other way around. Without that, his stiff boxing and eh power wouldn't be as threatening to Nick standing.

LA wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

LA how much wrestling wrestling have you really watched? Insofar as I go, the sport is almost unwatchable. Boring and very different from MMA "wrestling" which is mostly takedowns and scrambles. GSP is the best MMA wrestler, but I am not sure he would win a wrestling wrestling match as the rules and skillsets are more different than people realize.

OU, why do you keep saying I am a fanboy? I simply have an opinion of his skillset. You present no counter arguments besides "OMG FANBOY". Where am I wrong?

Aside from wrestling 2 years in High school, I watch the NCAA's a little every year. Bu when I see GSP's wrestling in training and in the cage, then I see how he does with other top level wrestlers, I just don't see them beating him, Askren obviously then Sheilds would be the two guys that I could see beating him.

You think Jake Shields can beat Jon Fitch in a wrestling match? I'll take Fitch in pure wrestling match over GSP and Jake.

GSP = best striker in the WW division

OU wrote:

LA wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

LA how much wrestling wrestling have you really watched? Insofar as I go, the sport is almost unwatchable. Boring and very different from MMA "wrestling" which is mostly takedowns and scrambles. GSP is the best MMA wrestler, but I am not sure he would win a wrestling wrestling match as the rules and skillsets are more different than people realize.

OU, why do you keep saying I am a fanboy? I simply have an opinion of his skillset. You present no counter arguments besides "OMG FANBOY". Where am I wrong?

Aside from wrestling 2 years in High school, I watch the NCAA's a little every year. Bu when I see GSP's wrestling in training and in the cage, then I see how he does with other top level wrestlers, I just don't see them beating him, Askren obviously then Sheilds would be the two guys that I could see beating him.

You think Jake Shields can beat Jon Fitch in a wrestling match? I'll take Fitch in pure wrestling match over GSP and Jake.

Were they being compared or was it these guys vs GSP?

But it isn't like Jake is a threat on the feet in MMA...That'd be a good wrestling match though

Wait, this isn't the Struve thread? jesus we sad...

Your reasons are not valid though. His takedowns are good because they're also set up through his standup game. This is why Kos training with Askren wasn't the coup he thought it was. Askren doesn't explode from five feet away during a counter punch. GSP only has that ability through his standup experience.

GSP would lose his defense, speed and deception without takedowns? I think not yall. I think not.

GSP isn't a specific favorite of mine at all. I just know what I see when I see it.

I see it the other way around, guys wouldn't fall for his stiff jab without the threat of getting taken down.

He'd still be able to land it and get away. Tag, you it.

You think GSP would outstrike Alves without the threat of a takedown?

I'm running after this but good to see you posting and adding some life here.

this GSP is sickening... i mean if the dude had balls to fight.... wait never mind, im not going there

Yea I do, watch UFC 100 again. GSP was inside Alves head and it was through speed and deception. GSP could read Alves and counter with punches, takedowns or whatever and Alves couldn't tell what GSP's movement meant. That doesn't go away. It just becomes limited to strikes. GSP still sees Alves coming. Alves still can't see GSP coming.

It was the fear of the takedown...I remember it well.

The takedown was so effective why? Because it came on the counter. GSP could get there before Alves could defend. Alves is about ten times slower than GSP. He isn't a great striker really anyway. In MMA he is dangerous but he is an order of magnitude behind GSP on the skill scale.

Alves - good striker per the division with weak strikers overall anyway

GSP - premier stand up skills in the sport

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The takedown was so effective why? Because it came on the counter. GSP could get there before Alves could defend. Alves is about ten times slower than GSP. He isn't a great striker really anyway. In MMA he is dangerous but he is an order of magnitude behind GSP on the skill scale.

It could easily be said the other way around, and I honestly don't even think GSP's karate is that good, like good yes obviously, but great eh IDK, his muscle mass makes it super stiff compared to what I've seen.

His ability to cover distance is what makes him good standing and with his takedowns. This is natural athleticism and based in karate. GSP is only stiff when he throws punching combos, something he is actually very mediocre at doing successfully.

Doesn't matter though. You don't see a whole lot of punching combos in K-1 from some guys either.

His kicks are stiff too, which is weird cause he's incredibly flexible.

I'll bow out cause neither of us will convince the other.

Was Wolf not the originator of the "the fear of the GSP takedown causes strikers to become less effective in the standup" argument? I could have sworn he was big on that not long ago.