Nick Diaz protected...

Diaz believes that Strikeforce has tried to pit him against guys that can knock his head off, therefore, the organization has tried to ruin him. Really, by putting hard-hitting brawlers in front of him, Strikeforce has protected him.

Diaz' krypto-nite has always been wrestling-centric grapplers. He struggled with Sean Sherk, Diego Sanchez and Karo Parisyan, and hasn't faced a guy with those skills since. He certainly has had the opportunities too.

There is one guy that has always seemed like an obvious opponent outside of the UFC in the WW division and that's Jay Heiron. Jay has solid stand-up, but is an exceptional grappler -- the kind of guy that could dominate Nick from the top position for five rounds.

He's also avoided scraps with Jason Miller citing that he won't fight at MW or some kind of catchweight, yet that was no problem against Frank Shamrock and Scott Smith. Strikeforce knew his wheelhouse by keeping Jay Heiron away, and Diaz knew it just as well by avoiding Mayhem.

Nick's run has been awesome, but before we get carried away with how he's the guy to stop GSP, I'd like to see him, just once, stop a quality ground guy. My hunch is that there was a method to Strikeforce and Diaz' madness.

I don't know what happened with Hieron, and that was always a big concerning to me for these reasons, but this is mostly untrue. Especially the Miller stuff. Don't really feel like explaining the situation again though.

at the end of the day though, i still want to see him defeat a solid wrestler before we can compare him to GSP and get that fight going

There's plenty of them in the division too, yet he gets one stand-up fight after another.

Yea especially in Strikeforce. All the names out there. First theres....and then....and finally.....Seriously fuck Strikeforce for giving Diaz top ten opponents and hated rivals who own victories over him like Daley and Noons, those were gimmies AMIRITE when rising hot super stars and household names such as Tyron muthafuckin Woodley exist!


Hieron was a blanket in SF and that's what I think got him released but other than that there are no fights SF could or should have made with Diaz but didn't. And it's been a while since I have seen all these fights but if I recall Diaz wasn't supremely outclassed by any of those "wrestlers". Diaz Diego and Diaz Karo were dogfights, and if I recall Sherk really struggled to get him down at times. These fights were years ago.

Hieron only had 2 fights on his Strikeforce contract.

When they signed him. He was supposed to fight Diaz as a fill in for Joe Riggs, but Diaz didnt show up to get licensed. So Hieron then fought Jesse Taylor and reportedly bored the crowd to tears. After that, there was a lot of hype surrounding the DREAM champion Marius Zaromskis who had been on a tear against slightly better competition then Hieron had beaten..slightly as they both shared Jason High, but Zaromskis had beat Mach as well and people wanted to see Diaz-Zaromskis. Hieron would go on to fight Joe Riggs and once again bore the crowd to tears...that was the last fight on his contract. Hieron than scared not only SF but the UFC off with his "more than a boring ass fighter who in all reality isnt even that good" is worth salary demands and in the end, he had to settle for Bellator for reasons unknown..but maybe A) nobody else would talk to him anymore B)Bellator overpaid C) He thought the tournament was easy money. Strikeforce in no way protected Diaz from Hieron. The only reason Hieron was ever in line to fight Diaz was because Riggs got hurt. Not to mention Diaz would bust his fuckin ass.

As for Mayhem...come on dude. Everybody knows that fight didnt happen because neither fighter wanted to give up a pound.

Paul Daley is the best fighter SF has had available to fight Nick Diaz. So, they arent protecting him.

Also, most of the people talking about how much problems Diaz has with wrestlers what? 5 years ago when he was still a kid? probably never even saw his fights with Sean Sherk, Diego Sanchez, Joe Riggs and Karo(who's not a wrestler). The Sherk and Karo fights could have gone to Diaz, and probably would have in.....PRIDE. For somebody who has so much problems with wrestlers...Sherk was about 3 for 16 trying to take Nick down, and even got taken down by Nick. Diego didnt beat Diaz by using just his wrestling base. He pretty much beat Nick everywhere. Riggs was the one where Diaz pretty much got stalled out, but it was still a very close fight and who would pick Riggs to beat Diaz today?

Kings via R1 TKO(showtime kick/pitterpatter punches)

And good call on the Whitemare Kings. At the time he had a lot of hype and was kicking motherfuckers heads off left and right. A lot scarier of an opponent. Like I said, Heiron was a blanket, and Kings is exactly right, he also scared the UFC off with his two poor victories in SF. I have also got the vibe he is a fighter who may be difficult to work with. I think he is a solid, top tennish level guy and as such I felt even if his decision against Riggs was a boring one he should have been thrown in with Diaz(because if Riggs won they damn sure would have promoted that fight). But Jay "Fitched" himself out of a title shot in what was essentially billed as a title eliminator. If I recall, fans initially were pissed that was an internet prelim and not a broadcast fight(via the EA website, which was unwatchable) but the anger subsided once people heard how bad the fight was and no one really said anything else and Jay was quietly not resigned.

I don't agree that Diaz has been protected at all. He has fought the best competition there was to offer him in SF. I would like to see him fight a good wrestler though.


Oh, and Nick knows he couldn't beat Mayhem! You guys know it also, but you want to pretend the truth hasn't been put in front of you multiple times. Keep on thinking what you want. Reality is there was an easy fight at 183lbs for Nick and he backed up again and screamed 181lbs. He bitched out against Mayhem and he knows it. Marathons are more important anyways.

Imo nick hasnt been protected at all. Its not his fought the sf ww division was so weak. Yeah he fought journeymen like cyborg and zam. Not his fought. So what if he went five round withna lw with broken hands like noons, once again not his fought. Finally ,like someone else said, he fought daley. A legit top 10 guy and possibly one of the best strikers in the ww division. Well nick finished him at his own game. In the end nick is a douche and unprofessional tool but the guy delivers and entertains every fight. Its silly for anyone to think he has been givin a protected road wen in reality its not his fault the orgs he chose to be had a weak division for hm. Also it silly to think as well that he could possibly beat guys like fitch,kos,gspnor possibily alves. In mma anything can happen but i wouod so favor thos guys without a problem 4 out of every 5 times they fought. Also miller, the guy he jumped, the mw, would beat him

Paul Daley is the only top ten he's faced. And Daley is only top ten because kampmann fought the dumbest fight of his life. He subs Daley 9 times out 10.

Competitive fights were available. Strike force didnt make them. They want brawlers that nick can pick apart. They wanted "exciting" fights where jackass fans can get giddy over throwing haymakers and accuse wrestlers of being boring. It's called mma kings, not k-1.

I know karo isn't a wrestler, but he is a grappler. Knew some keyboard jock would jump all over that. And i saw all those fights i listed. Note I didn't mention the riggs fight. That's because i didn't see it.

Wouldn't besurprised if nick is better in that area, but I'd like to see it before i rank him ahead of shields or fitch. And it is curious how it's a matchup that has been avoided altogether in recent years.

lol, keyboard jock. Very nice.

I never said wrestlers were boring in my post...as a matter of fact..i never even stated a preference in fighting styles in my posts. I just stated simple facts as to why Hieron vs. Diaz was never made. I didnt mean for it to seem like Hieron didnt get the fight because he was boring, but he also didnt look very good in those fights and there was also a contract situation with him..but he is boring, but i never said thats because he was a wrestler...not ALL wrestlers stall and do little activity after the takedown which Hieron did in his two fights in SF. Also, Heiron admitted he turned down a fight with Zaromskis before the Diaz-Zaromskis was made...that might of turned SF off him for good.

What more competitive fights? please don't say Mayhem and i already covered Hieron. Zaromskis was ranked higher than Hieron(most sites had Z around 10 after the DREAM GP) and it was right on the heels of Strikeforce and DREAM forming a partnership. After that fight, Hieron was long gone from SF. Who else is there other then the guys he fought?

Also, nobody thought Diaz was going to pick apart Noons(who undressed Diaz in EliteXC, lets not forget), Paul Daley(who nearly knocked him out), and Zaromskis(Who came in a very feared striker who rocked him and landed several shots throughout the fight). These are guys people expected Diaz to try to grapple and Diaz then picked them apart standing. Also, Diaz was a dog against Shamrock mainly because Shamrock's ability to wrestle(though Shammy's knees were well shot out)...now people talk after the fact like they knew it all along and it was a tailor made fight. Give me a break.

Cyborg and Smith fit the description of what you are talking about. Guys put in there to have an exciting stand up battle but not really expected to have a real chance against Diaz.

However, Guys like Noons, Daley, Zaromskis, and Shamrock were not there to be picked apart by Diaz, they were all thought to have something on Diaz and it just turned out that they didnt because Diaz keeps showing how good his boxing has become and his BJJ is there when he wants to use it. This is just captain hindsight coming in and saying "these guys were put in there to protect Diaz" when nobody thought that going in.

The fact is, the best WW to come through SF just happened to be guys who stand who Diaz beat at their own games...but it's only been a couple times(Cyborg and Smith) where people expected Diaz to do that.

Also, what matchup are you curious about being avoided? Diaz and Shields? They are training partners and are like brothers. It's not like EliteXC and SF were very sly in avoiding making that fight all those years...it was never even an option as those two said they would never fight eachother. There is a reason Jake Shields was fighting Robbie Lawler, Mayhem and Dan Henderson when he was in Strikeforce..and Diaz was fighting LW's when they were in EliteXC together. Nothing to be curious about, it's pretty obvious.

As for you being ready to rank him ahead of Jake and Fitch..why even bring this up? Nobody is ranking Diaz ahead of those guys...hell, most don't have him ahead of Koscheck, Alves, and maybe Penn now that he is a WW again.

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

I don't agree that Diaz has been protected at all. He has fought the best competition there was to offer him in SF. I would like to see him fight a good wrestler though.


Oh, and Nick knows he couldn't beat Mayhem! You guys know it also, but you want to pretend the truth hasn't been put in front of you multiple times. Keep on thinking what you want. Reality is there was an easy fight at 183lbs for Nick and he backed up again and screamed 181lbs. He bitched out against Mayhem and he knows it. Marathons are more important anyways.

I am warming up to nick more and more lately, however all the mayhem stuff hurts what he throws out there on previous occassions. I also think it was weak sauce to go after noons just because noons beat him, noons is 155. Why not go after that jeremy kid that tkod him several years ago?

I dont mind nick not wanting to fight mayhem but then dont go fight smith or shamrock if the weight is the reason

diaz vs kampman or condit would be a good tune up fight for a stand up war

Noons is still a pretty big LW and was the 160 lbs champ for EliteXC, not 55. The reason they went with Noons is because Noons relatively recently beat him and the two also had an incage brawl. Where do you think "Don't be scared homie" originally stemmed from? A lot of people were thinking Noons would pick Diaz apart again. That fight was a no-brainer to make.

I don't like the revisionism here. Diaz faces a guy who sliced his face up in the past, but because he demonstrates he is now a top level striker in the division the fight was a squash all of a sudden? Diaz faces a tournament winning, ranked, standing champion in Dream who was on an absolute tear in Zaromskis and wins and now it's a squash? It's not like Zaro has been dominated since significantly. He lost once to another challenger of Diaz.

As for Cyborg, he got the fight by also KOing Zaromskis, which is Zaromskis' only other loss since his recent run has begun. Let's not act like Zaro is complete garbage here suddenly. I thought only Fedor and his opponent tree are victims of this kind of nonsensical revisionist stuff? What we have seen here with Diaz is standard fight promotion. Diaz has been given top fighters consistently. Shamrock's last fight before the Diaz fight was a competitive classic against Cung Le and many including myself picked him to win the fight(but he had broken ribs, I still contend if he was the Shamrock who fought Baroni and Le things might have been different)

As for Scott Smith, he was on a two fight KO streak against Benji Radach(around the time Benji was ranked on some lists and fresh off smashing Ninja Rua) and Terry Martin(one of Vitor's primary highlights leading to the Silva fight, remember) and before that his two fights were title fight classics against Robbie Lawler. So let us not act like Smith was some lamb lead to the slaughter either. Again, a lot of commentary before that fight was how Diaz and his pitter patter style couldn't withstand the one shot comeback power of Scott Smith. Scott Smith had also become one of the fan favorites in Strikeforce.

Quote :

Why not go after that jeremy kid that tkod him several years ago?

Well, cause that fight happened 9 years ago and the IFC made the rematch and none other than the UFC made the rubber match in 03 immediately after, both of which Diaz finished(TKO and armbar respectively).


The more you analyze the criticisms of Diaz's opponents the less sense they make.

good point about jeremy i forgot about rematch, but you dont answer anything about fighting shamrock and smith at higher weights but not mayhem despite diaz originally saying he wanted to fight him.

smith was a givme and everyone knows it. smith had a small chance to land a big punch but that was it,same with cyborg. Everyone knew cyborg couldnt keep pace but he made it more competitive than I thought he would.

dont say noons is a big lw as a way to bring credit to calling out a smaller guy while fighting guys a weight class above you on occassion.

I dont think strikeforce have protected diaz but his competition isnt what other top fighters have had to face, and for a guy that says he wants to fight someone he sure didnt back it up on the mayhem front.

I need names, who did they protect him from? He might be a dodger, but that is different then being protected.

Quote :

good point about jeremy i forgot about rematch, but you dont answer anything about fighting shamrock and smith at higher weights but not mayhem despite diaz originally saying he wanted to fight him.

Mayhem wanted a reigning champion at 170 pounds to fight at a higher weight than he ever has in his career. Not at the weights he fought Smith or Shamrock at. This was also immediately after his close friend and partner struggled with Martin Kampmann due to cutting down to 170 immediately after beating an all time great in Hendo at 185. Diaz is ducking mother fuckers because he wont as a reigning champ move up all the way to 85 to fight a bigger guy? Get out of here with that noise.

I don't think either the Smith or the Cyborg fights were what you'd call gimmies. Was Diaz the favorite? Sure. But for a guy who just a couple years ago was fighting at LW to be facing a knockout punching durable former WEC LHW champ in Smith, it's hard to call it a gimme. Remember, Diaz was moving up in weight. Cyborg looks like a much improved fighter at 170 and has faced tons of elite competition and is well rounded. He just blasted Zaro and had earned it with that win.

Noons had a recent victory over Diaz, that fight cannot be held against him. Diaz has faced all types of great competition. The best out there available. I am not sure how many 55 pound fights he has taken in the last three years but the majority were catchweights or 160. So calling a guy who almost never fights at 155 a 55r is a bit disingenuous.

Talking some kind of noise because Hieron is the one guy he hasn't fought is approaching ridiculous. Saying he has been protected when he is a BJJ guy who likes to strike when all he has been given is dangerous strikers is also ridiculous.

Boomer is right is stating that Sf has not thrown a bunch of wrestlers at Diaz. I think part of that is by design, I do think SF leans a little more towards strikers then wrestlers.

And the reason for that is wrestlers can be very boring. And the 2 wrestlers that were in line to fight Diaz,(heiron/woodley) def fit that bill in the fights preceding the possible Diaz matchup.

So instead we have seen Diaz fight in 5 straight exciting fights vs primarily standup strikers.

Im cool with it. In truth I prefer it.

Hieron was given the fucking fight though but Diaz bounced on the drug test. So Jay then fulfills his contract with unairable fights and was not resigned. The UFC also passed on him. Further, Jay's UFC career is only notable for the fact GSP as a greenhorn completely disjawed him. So Strikeforce was supposed to bend over backwards for a guy who completely assed out his opportunity who in the end would mostly be a "UFC reject who GSP kicked out"?

Naw.

Lets not act like Woodley deserved a shot all of a sudden. Just because he is a wrestler doesn't automatically warrant him a title shot over someone who has come off an impressive streak in Japan, a dominating win over the current champion in the last few years, and someone who was in line for a title shot elsewhere of relevance.

Agreed, Woodley is right there as a #1 contender for the SF belt though. Mainly because of the WW depth. In reality he is not fully worthy though to me just yet, close though.

Cu Bua wrote:

good point about jeremy i forgot about rematch, but you dont answer anything about fighting shamrock and smith at higher weights but not mayhem despite diaz originally saying he wanted to fight him.

smith was a givme and everyone knows it. smith had a small chance to land a big punch but that was it,same with cyborg. Everyone knew cyborg couldnt keep pace but he made it more competitive than I thought he would.

dont say noons is a big lw as a way to bring credit to calling out a smaller guy while fighting guys a weight class above you on occassion.

I dont think strikeforce have protected diaz but his competition isnt what other top fighters have had to face, and for a guy that says he wants to fight someone he sure didnt back it up on the mayhem front.

wow ambiguous much?

Noons is definetly a smaller fighter, noons didnt use weight as an issue, he went up for frank and smith, again weight not an issue. He sucker punched mayham and all said he wanted the fight. then all the sudden weight is a factor?

again I dont hink they protect him, just saying the backers forget about mayhem

XC made the LW division 160 for Nick Diaz. Do some investigating. THe organization wanted Diaz to be their champ. Noons ruined it, because he fought a very slow, emaciated Diaz. Nick looked slow in all of his "LW" fights to me.

Never bought the Z-hype, nor Cyborg. Meanwhile, Jay tore through a long string of wins against some, in hindsight, solid guys. He was probably the only non-UFC WW hovering around the top ten. If Strikeforce was concerned with putting the best outside the UFC against their champ, then Jay was it. Strikeforce wants stand-up wars, that's why they pretty much cast Jake Shields aside.

SF didn't want Jay, and Nick didn't want Mayhem. And Nick has said several times he doesn't care about his title so it's hard to to say he wouldn't move up to 180 again because he's a champion -- he doesn't care.

Never thought Woodley deserved a shot in the past, but now he's getting close.

Quote :

Never bought the Z-hype, nor Cyborg. Meanwhile, Jay tore through a long string of wins against some, in hindsight, solid guys. He was probably the only non-UFC WW hovering around the top ten. If Strikeforce was concerned with putting the best outside the UFC against their champ, then Jay was it. Strikeforce wants stand-up wars, that's why they pretty much cast Jake Shields aside.

You not buying hype and the hype existing for everyone else are two different things. Your universe and the real world aint the same. Zaro was hyped big time and was fresh off a major tournament win and had KO'd three straight opponents with headkicks. He was the second coming of Mirko Crocop. You're honestly faulting Strikeforce with going with him over Jay fucking Hieron and his newfound boring style?

No disrespect boom, but it's a great thing Coker runs Strikeforce and not you, at least for the bulk of MMA fans and all the employees and fighters that work for them.

But btw, they did offer Hieron the fight at one point but Diaz skipped the drug test.

Quote :

Nick didn't want Mayhem. And Nick has said several times he doesn't care about his title so it's hard to to say he wouldn't move up to 180 again because he's a champion -- he doesn't care.

You missed the point boom.


He would have moved to 180, but Mayhem wanted him to fight at 183(maybe 82, which is higher than he'd ever fought ever in his career). One pound cost the fight. Not caring about a title is one thing Boom, but the fact remains he would have had to move up nearly 15 pounds and then have to cut back to 170 for his very next fight. Title or not, he'd be back at 170 for money fights and he knows that. Diaz isn't a dumbass and understands rapid and random fluctuations are bad for fighters. Look at Jake Shields, on the one hand he watches Jakes beat an all time great off a bad cut in Dan Hendo, and then in his very next fight struggle with Martin Kampmann, who is otherwise the kind of fighter Jake walks right through. Nick is right there behind the scenes for all that.


All of these arguments against Diaz and Strikeforce appear to me to try and twist the facts around a reality as opposed to framing a reality around the facts.