Portrait of Isolation?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jared-lee-loughner-family-portrait-isolation/story?id=12587114&page=2

As everyone trys to find reason for a tragedy without one, it's expected for questions to be raised about the shooters family. I want to point out that just because a family doesn't talk to there neighbors everyday, or maybe don't like there neighbors doesn't mean these are horrible people. I don't know either way but I do believe it is possible that this kid had a regular life. He didn't have to come from a "broken" home to have done what was done. Killers are born not just made.

In this story they call the family a "portrait of isolation" but if they took a look at my family you could call it the same thing, I'm sorry but I just don't talk to my neighbors, my kids don't just get to run all over the neighborhood with the other kids with no one watching them. Being a private person doesn't mean your a badguy. Also try if you can to imagine if this was your kid and you did the best you could to raise him. I just think it's important to wait to find out what these people really are like before they are judged for their parenting skills. And not just ask someone who admitts they don't really know them and go by what they say.

MMAEYES wrote:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jared-lee-loughner-family-portrait-isolation/story?id=12587114&page=2

As everyone trys to find reason for a tragedy without one, it's expected for questions to be raised about the shooters family. I want to point out that just because a family doesn't talk to there neighbors everyday, or maybe don't like there neighbors doesn't mean these are horrible people. I don't know either way but I do believe it is possible that this kid had a regular life. He didn't have to come from a "broken" home to have done what was done. Killers are born not just made.

In this story they call the family a "portrait of isolation" but if they took a look at my family you could call it the same thing, I'm sorry but I just don't talk to my neighbors, my kids don't just get to run all over the neighborhood with the other kids with no one watching them. Being a private person doesn't mean your a badguy. Also try if you can to imagine if this was your kid and you did the best you could to raise him. I just think it's important to wait to find out what these people really are like before they are judged for their parenting skills. And not just ask someone who admitts they don't really know them and go by what they say.

I see what you are saying, but at the same time his parents won't be winning any awards for mom and dad of the year.

I'm saying they could have been parent of the year quality parents and still produce a murderer. Maybe they should have saw signs of this or that but untill we know that they ignored signs we can't judge these people. What if there were no signs? What should or could they have done?

I saw a show that was about a preacher who loved his family, wasn't abusive, his kid killed his wife and shot him in the face over Halo2. His son was born a killer, there's nothing that he could have done deferently as a father to stop what happened, nothing.

MMAEYES wrote:

I saw a show that was about a preacher who loved his family, wasn't abusive, his kid killed his wife and shot him in the face over Halo2. His son was born a killer, there's nothing that he could have done deferently as a father to stop what happened, nothing.

I agree with everything you have said. Most Killers are born, but just like soldiers around the world and kids in Darfur they can be made. I am not saying his parents are bad or good people. I don't know them so I won't judge them like you are saying.

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

MMAEYES wrote:

I saw a show that was about a preacher who loved his family, wasn't abusive, his kid killed his wife and shot him in the face over Halo2. His son was born a killer, there's nothing that he could have done deferently as a father to stop what happened, nothing.

I agree with everything you have said. Most Killers are born, but just like soldiers around the world and kids in Darfur they can be made. I am not saying his parents are bad or good people. I don't know them so I won't judge them like you are saying.

Just checking, we are def on the same page. It just kind of pissed me off when I saw this story and it basically makes it seem like "oh they never talked to any of us, they kept to them selves so they must have something to hind"

i don't believe that killers are born. Goes back to the nature vs nurture debate. I tend to think that someone's experiences throughout life shape them into what they are and what they do. I will never believe that people are born inherently evil. They become that way.

While not born evil per say, each person is born with the capacity for evil. At least according to Dostoyevsky. According to the church every man, woman, and child is indeed born evil as per cardinal sin. This is why infants are baptized so as to wash away this sin and allow the child to begin life anew with a chance to go to heaven should the child die young.

Nature vs Nurture is a very interesting concept. On the one hand man shapes his environment to suit him. On the other hand man also takes much from his environment to shape himself.

oggy420 wrote:

i don't believe that killers are born. Goes back to the nature vs nurture debate. I tend to think that someone's experiences throughout life shape them into what they are and what they do. I will never believe that people are born inherently evil. They become that way.

What about this kid who came from a loving family and killed his mom and shot his dad over xbox, what made him a killer? Xbox?

Im not familiar with this story. Was there any mental illness? Because sane people do not kill their parents over x-box.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7826663.stm

Here one link to the story I'm trying to find a better one. I don't think there was any mental illness but if there was and he was born with that mental illness then wouldn't that mean he was born a killer?

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1245227634164350.xml&coll=2

The youth shot his mother, Susan, 43, and father, Mark, 47, Oct. 20, 2007. Prosecutors said he told his parents he had a surprise for them and to close their eyes. Then he pulled the trigger. Afterward, Petric, then 16, tried to make it appear as if the shooting were a murder-suicide by placing the gun in his father's hand, authorities said.

MMAEYES wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7826663.stm

Here one link to the story I'm trying to find a better one. I don't think there was any mental illness but if there was and he was born with that mental illness then wouldn't that mean he was born a killer?

thats not really what i meant. I wasn't talking about people who may suffer from mental illness. I mean thats just sick. That kid clearly had something wrong with him. If he just all of a sudden snapped and killed them, and there was really no previous signs that this was a troubled kid then that would be pretty shocking to me.

Well obviously I can't tell you for sure Oggy but all signs point to this kid not having any kind of behavor problems before. And his Dad speaks on his behave to this day so that to me says he didn't have sucky abusive parents.

Well i cant explain that. Sometimes people do just... snap. I don't know. I think everyone is born with the capability of both good and evil.

Good debate topic. People need to realize that no single human being is ever going to be the same. Some people develop a mental illness, and that drives them into insanity and into murdering people...others have traumatizing things happen in their childhood, which cause them to go over the deep end.

And I know, just from hearing people talk about it on science shows and what not, that some people actually ENJOY causing harm, and or killing people.

Just like in the movie Hostel..there are people that are actually like that from what I have heard.

Its kind of crazy to think of all the serial killers that have come from primarily Northeast Ohio, but from the entire state also. This list is ridiculous.

Charles Manson
Jeffrey Dahmer
Donald Harvey
Anthony Sowell (recently police found 12 dead corpse's in his backyard/home, and suspect more to be in other abandoned homes throughout cleveland from him)
Larry Ralston
Thomas Dillon
Michael Swango
Thaddeus and Gary Lewingdon
Alton Coleman
Debra Brown
Moreland family juvenile baby killer
Eric Elliot
Lewis Gilbert
The Cleveland Torso Muderer (long time ago, never got solved)
Terry Shepard



And then just recently, down in a county called Holmes County (im assuming its out in the boonies), someone got arrested because Police found a couple dead bodies stuffed up inside a tree trunk in someone's backyard...i'll have to look more into that.

damn glad i don't live in Ohio lol

NoRegret wrote:

And then just recently, down in a county called Holmes County (im assuming its out in the boonies), someone got arrested because Police found a couple dead bodies stuffed up inside a tree trunk in someone's backyard...i'll have to look more into that.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20027794-504083.html

Matthew Hoffman

Authorities said Hoffman killed and dismembered Tina Herrmann, 32, her son, Kody, 11, and a family friend, Stephanie Sprang, 41. Some of the charges against Hoffman stemmed from the kidnapping and rape of Herrmann's teenage daughter. A SWAT team found Herriman's 13-year-old daughter bound and gagged in Hoffman's basement on Nov. 14. Four days later, his attorney led authorities to the bodies of his victims. They were found inside a hollow tree at the Kokosing Nature Preserve near Fredericktown in rural Knox County.

I thought I heard something about a couple murders out in Holmes county too?

It is possible to be born with hormonal disorders or abnormal brain function which can cause over aggressive behavior and an unnatural want to hurt/harm people.

LA wrote:

It is possible to be born with hormonal disorders or abnormal brain function which can cause over aggressive behavior and an unnatural want to hurt/harm people.

See I told you guys killers are born lol

That said, I think more are most likely made, it can be both though if you ask me.

LA wrote:

That said, I think more are most likely made, it can be both though if you ask me.

I agree completely.