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 VITALI IS REMARKABLE

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marbleheadmaui
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PostSubject: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:01 am

How many fighters in the history of the sport have been better than Klitschko in their late 30's? Fitzsimmons, Moore, Hopkins, Foreman. Anybody else?

How many fighters in history have taken multi-year layoffs (for whatever reason) and come back to perform the way Vitali has? Ali, Louis, Jofre, Leonard, Floyd. Anyone else?

How many heavyweights routinely throw 70+ punches a round? Now how many after 35 do it? Not very many.

Is Vitali awkward? Yup. Is his technique one that ought not to be mimicked? Yup. Is his competition of limited quality? Yup. Is he great? We'll probably never really know.

But he's big and strong and rugged and knows what he's doing in the ring and he is always, always fit. He fights whomever is available. What's not to like?

Vitali Klitschko. The sport could use a couple more guys like him.


Last edited by marbleheadmaui on Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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timthebim
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:03 am

I will always remember Vitali for showing some real Heart and Balls against Lennox Lewis. He was hurt but kept on fighting. He showed me alot in that fight.
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marbleheadmaui
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:04 am

timthebim wrote:
I will always remember Vitali for showing some real Heart and Balls against Lennox Lewis. He was hurt but kept on fighting. He showed me alot in that fight.

Agreed. A truly tough man. He may have had to learn that, but he learned it.
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powerpuncher
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:12 am

the thing that really impresses me the most about him is his hand speed. for his size he has quick hands. as i always say, i think that he would have problems with a real boxer because he doesnt know how to keep his hands up but i think that he is a solid fighter. he isnt a great fighter but a solid one.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:15 am

powerpuncher wrote:
the thing that really impresses me the most about him is his hand speed. for his size he has quick hands. as i always say, i think that he would have problems with a real boxer because he doesnt know how to keep his hands up but i think that he is a solid fighter. he isnt a great fighter but a solid one.

Agreed but the problem is we will never know if he could have been great because there isnt any1 to test him out there right now.
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marbleheadmaui
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:17 am

powerpuncher wrote:
the thing that really impresses me the most about him is his hand speed. for his size he has quick hands. as i always say, i think that he would have problems with a real boxer because he doesnt know how to keep his hands up but i think that he is a solid fighter. he isnt a great fighter but a solid one.

At some point a couple of years ago I just threw up my hands with the Ukranians and said they are doing EVERYTHING I can ask and they keep winning. That gets one better than solid in my book. The competition stinks and that is the limiting factor, but given that they fight everyobody who is willing I just don't think I can ask for more.

The older I get the more Aristotle (You are what you repeatedly do) and Bill Parcells (You are what the scoreboard says you are) seem right to me.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:21 am

marbleheadmaui wrote:
powerpuncher wrote:
the thing that really impresses me the most about him is his hand speed. for his size he has quick hands. as i always say, i think that he would have problems with a real boxer because he doesnt know how to keep his hands up but i think that he is a solid fighter. he isnt a great fighter but a solid one.

At some point a couple of years ago I just threw up my hands with the Ukranians and said they are doing EVERYTHING I can ask and they keep winning. That gets one better than solid in my book. The competition stinks and that is the limiting factor, but given that they fight everyobody who is willing I just don't think I can ask for more.

The older I get the more Aristotle (You are what you repeatedly do) and Bill Parcells (You are what the scoreboard says you are) seem right to me.

Thats a pretty good saying LOL.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:42 am

Who do you guys think would win if the brothers fought each other? and who will end up being ranked higher on the all-time lists?
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:50 am

I've always leaned Vitali if they fought but over the last few fights my answer has changed. Vitali is still plenty good to plaster the shit out of everyone he gets in the ring with but I think Wald would be too much for him now

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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:54 am

I dont even think about them fighting because it isnt going to happen. Gun to my head though I say Vitali wins.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:04 am

I think Vitali will win also. Big Brother will have a mental edge.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:06 am

freakzilla316ftw wrote:
I think Vitali will win also. Big Brother will have a mental edge.

Totally agree.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:09 am

marbleheadmaui wrote:
powerpuncher wrote:
the thing that really impresses me the most about him is his hand speed. for his size he has quick hands. as i always say, i think that he would have problems with a real boxer because he doesnt know how to keep his hands up but i think that he is a solid fighter. he isnt a great fighter but a solid one.

At some point a couple of years ago I just threw up my hands with the Ukranians and said they are doing EVERYTHING I can ask and they keep winning. That gets one better than solid in my book. The competition stinks and that is the limiting factor, but given that they fight everyobody who is willing I just don't think I can ask for more.

The older I get the more Aristotle (You are what you repeatedly do) and Bill Parcells (You are what the scoreboard says you are) seem right to me.
i have to somewhat disagree with the bold because there are more factors than that. i understand that they are doing everything they can but lets look at this. both of the klits started boxing professionally in 1996. you didnt hear much about them until about 5 or 6 years after that. even at that time they were thought to be good up and coming fighters. the HW division was already really weak but then lewis retires and most of that era of HWs either retire or should retire because they are way past their prime. now that the division dies, the klits take over. although they have done all that they can now, before the division fell apart, they didnt make a whole lot of noise. my point is that the division is so weak right now that the "scoreboard" alone isnt going to tell you the whole story. you have to look at the fighter and critique them yourself also. lets take someone like brian nielson for example. he had a great record but was he actually good? no. why does he have a good record? because he fought all bums. so just looking at him we can tell that he just isnt that great of a fighter and that if he actually fought good HWs (like he fought tyson), he wouldnt last. now just because the klits are fighting "contenders" doesnt mean that they are any good. so we have to just look for ourselves and see how good they are because obviously the fighters that they are fighting arent giving us a very good basis.

so IMO, just looking at both of the klit bros, they both have some great strengths but also some pretty big weaknesses. if it were muhammad ali walking through this division then i would still hold ali at a place of greatness because i could just look at him and say that he is an awesome fighter. when i watch the klits, im not thinking that im watching awesome fighters but just solid fighters in a weak division that should probably just be contenders in a solid division.

that was longer than i intended it to be.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:12 am

Would either beat 1988 Mike Tyson?
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timthebim
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:14 am

I dont think so although there height and reach would give Mike fits.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:28 am

freakzilla316ftw wrote:
Would either beat 1988 Mike Tyson?
no because wlad doesnt have near the chin for someone like tyson. although tyson fades after a few rounds (i think tyson would KO wlad in the first few rounds though) he is still a dangerous puncher throughout the fight. vitali like i keep saying holds his hands way to low. he might have a pretty good chin but i dont really care how good your chin is, you better be able to avoid getting hit otherwise its not going to end well. i think that vitali might give tyson a little trouble for a few rounds but then i dont think that vitali would last.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:03 am

freakzilla316ftw wrote:
Would either beat 1988 Mike Tyson?

vitali would annihilate him. Woad is a tougher call.Tyson has three rounds to win or he gets killed
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:09 am

marbleheadmaui wrote:
freakzilla316ftw wrote:
Would either beat 1988 Mike Tyson?

vitali would annihilate him. Woad is a tougher call.Tyson has three rounds to win or he gets killed

By the time he fought Douglas he had won 12 fights that had lasted past the 3rd rd.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:46 am

i have to agree totaly with powerpuncher..especialy on the scorecard thing..look last night it was briggs who did nothing and it wasnt because vitali had a huge reach or a skill level of expertiece like holmes showed in the first shavers fight that prevented briggs from doing nothing..briggs did that to himself..a tough guy.WHY.cause in one fight he was beaton but fought back..what other time was he tested..the byrd fight..vitali QUIT.he complained of a hand injury and said i quit..nooo sholder injury was mentioned..byrd much sm,aller in every department was starting to hit him often..the announcers called it a disgrace expecialy since he was well ahead..i dont want to hear hes a tough guy cause in reality he hasnt proved that in the ring.2 or 3 rounds dont prove your a tough guy..briggs last nite showed toughness..
briggs landed 4 jabs flush and each time stopped vitali in his tracts..noo 1-2 which was there for him..hand speed.come on.briggs slipped nothing.no head movement at all.no ducking.no rolling with the punches.no getting low when vitali threw his telegraphed right hand..he stood erect and stationary..no parring or blocking of punches..a holmes a ali even a prime bowe and many others like a tysona liston at his best would slip that punch and counter..if briggs non jab 4 times could stop vitali in his tract what would a foreman holmes ali louis liston do who had great jabs..toss his offense off big time..all of them could slip punches..and punch back and counter and gfive angles.
as far as a comback yes he did great ..floyd dont belong on that list..a 20 month layoff and inactivity since coming back..a ray robinson fought great competion many times over in his career 35 plus.yes he lost some but the competion level was light years advanced over anything vitali would ever face..a solid fighter.yes.a great one..noo. a near great.perhaps..
tyson yes post jail was a powerfull 3 round fighter after the 5th oridinary perhaps..before that ill disagree somewhat..hed blow wlad out of the water.a all time great puncher vs a glass jaw equals disaster...because vitali has a reach folks then say because of that ONE thing hes almost unbeatable..nonsence..his jab is slow and pawing.his footwork if you want to call it that is robotic semi-stationary..he can be hit.byrd proved it.lewis proved it.the guy he fought last or 2 fights ago did it..first you have to punch...a tyson in his hayday would of.a dempsey would of.there two examples of a fighter that could use another fighgters big reach to there advantage.
what did lenox lewis do to a prime at his best briggs..
im not sooo sure vitali threw 70 plus punches a round last night..what other heavy could do that..anser.almost every one when your fighting a guy thats upright stationary that doesnt throw punches back...tyson threw punches with power and speed in bunches.8-10 at a time like in the bruno fight...marciano threw almost 100 in a half a round yes a half a round against charles in a LATE round..
lets not make vitali superman.a tough guy..hes neither.2-3 rounds in a career does not make you a tough guy...is he head over heals better then whats out there..of course.for the few attributes he has there are several flaws for each one.the TWO times he faced adverse conditions he lost..not win.he lost..
yes hes done what there is to do but examine why...lets not go overboard in annointing him..ill agree with powepuncher noo matter how unpopular that is because its correct..hes right..
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:18 am

theres noo doubt the sport could use several more like vitali and wlad..they conduct themselves as gentlemen with style and do fight whats out there and avoid noo one..they bring a quality approach to a press conference and not the jim mc mann WWA mentality and nonsence that appeals to folks with a IQ of 60 or less..
there a huge credit to the game and i wish not only other fighters follow there path but also the so called 4 to 6 boxing commisions ...
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:21 am

marbleheadmaui wrote:
How many fighters in the history of the sport have been better than Klitschko in their late 30's? Fitzsimmons, Moore, Hopkins, Foreman. Anybody else?

How many fighters in history have taken multi-year layoffs (for whatever reason) and come back to perform the way Vitali has? Ali, Louis, Jofre, Leonard, Floyd. Anyone else?

How many heavyweights routinely throw 70+ punches a round? Now how many after 35 do it? Not very many.

Is Vitali awkward? Yup. Is his technique one that ought not to be mimicked? Yup. Is his competition of limited quality? Yup. Is he great? We'll probably never really know.
But he's big and strong and rugged and knows what he's doing in the ring and he is always, always fit. He fights whomever is available. What's not to like?
Vitali Klitschko. The sport could use a couple more guys like him.


Didn't every great HW Champion fight his share limited quality competition? Look at some of the tomatocans/journeymen, Dempsey, Louis, Lewis, and Marciano fought for the title. "Defining" fights for HW Champions are few and far between, Ali was one of the few exceptions, he basically had 3 top quality opponents who helped define him and make him great. (Liston, Frazier & Foreman)

Just because he hasn't been in that many "defining" fights or faced what some believe is quality opposition, that doesn't mean that Vitali wouldn't be competitive in any boxing era. I see no reason to believe that if Vitali's opposition in the division were better, he wouldn't simply rise to the challenge and take care of business as usual.

P.S. Not only does Vitali win, he almost always dominates, and he has the highest KO% of any HW Champion in the history of pro boxing, give the guy some fucking credit.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:20 am

I think Tyson struggles mightily with either Kiltschko. The height and reach difference would be big. Marble has it right: Tyson has a few rounds to hit Wlad before he is in deep trouble and eating jabs. Vitali tears Mike up in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:23 am

i cant believe that dmar agrees with me. it seems like we are always disagreeing. haha. i give vitali credit for the things that he has done but as dmar pointed out, the only 2 opponents that he has faced that were actually worth anything were byrd and lewis and he lost both of those fights. and lewis looked the worst ive ever seen him look in that fight. so again, thats why vitali is a solid fighter but not a great one. he started dominating after the division fell apart.
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:42 am

powerpuncher wrote:
i cant believe that dmar agrees with me. it seems like we are always disagreeing. haha. i give vitali credit for the things that he has done but as dmar pointed out, the only 2 opponents that he has faced that were actually worth anything were byrd and lewis and he lost both of those fights. and lewis looked the worst ive ever seen him look in that fight. so again, thats why vitali is a solid fighter but not a great one. he started dominating after the division fell apart.


*Sigh*, the "losses" to Lewis (stopped because of a horrible cut) and Byrd, (a torn rotator cuff) were meaningless. Do you really think Byrd would have "won" the fight if Vitali hadn't gotten injured, or do you really believe that Vitali could have continued but decided to quit?

As for the fight with Lewis, without the terrible cut, I believe there's a good chance Klitschko would have won, in any event Vitali wanted a rematch for years afterwards, but Lewis retired after the fight.
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marbleheadmaui
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PostSubject: Re: VITALI IS REMARKABLE   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:36 pm

freakzilla316ftw wrote:
marbleheadmaui wrote:
freakzilla316ftw wrote:
Would either beat 1988 Mike Tyson?

vitali would annihilate him. Woad is a tougher call.Tyson has three rounds to win or he gets killed

By the time he fought Douglas he had won 12 fights that had lasted past the 3rd rd.

Yup, and against who exactly? Not a single tall bomber in the bunch.
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