Has the crumbling of all the "unbeatables" begun?

Let's just take a look here. Wolfy and alotta others who were riding heavily on BJ Penn's coattail, and saying that if he stayed as motivated as he was, he'd never lose again.....And then Machida, who many deemed as unbeatable, and now Fedor.

Just a little interresting. I dont see GSP or Anderson Silva losing anytime soon, but alot of people didnt see Fedor or Penn losing in their last fights either, myself included on those two.

Just leaves the question begging to be answered on if GSP and Silva are the next two unbeatables in line to be knocked off.

My only point of view on the "unbeatable" label is the one I have heard from Randy and Chuck, amongst others. If you are an MMA fighter and you don't have a loss under your belt, your doing it wrong.

If I need spell that out, they are not saying you can't go 10-0, but if you are going 20-0 or 30-0 you are only taking on shitty talent and not challenging yourself, while also doing a disservice to the sport. I think the loss is the best thing that ever happened to Machida and will either motivate him or send him packing. I expect the former.

Can you say it started with Faber and Torres? 2 top 5 P4P fighters at the time of their losses.

Andrew the Raider King wrote:

My only point of view on the "unbeatable" label is the one I have heard from Randy and Chuck, amongst others. If you are an MMA fighter and you don't have a loss under your belt, your doing it wrong.

If I need spell that out, they are not saying you can't go 10-0, but if you are going 20-0 or 30-0 you are only taking on shitty talent and not challenging yourself, while also doing a disservice to the sport. I think the loss is the best thing that ever happened to Machida and will either motivate him or send him packing. I expect the former.

I'm not saying fighters have to be undefeated in the sport to be unbeatable. But in this stage of these fighters careers that I've listed, almost everyone picks them to win their fights each time, thus making them "unbeatable".

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

Can you say it started with Faber and Torres? 2 top 5 P4P fighters at the time of their losses.

If you want to include them, sure...that only adds to my case.

I dont think Torres faced alot of top tier talent in his run though.

Fedor was the exception, but a loss was coming sooner or later.

Randy said that no doubt because he has a record approaching .500.


Anderson will lose to a wrestler. He's only faced one and lost the first round. Spider is far from unbeatable. Chael Sonnen could beat him and make it look easy.

GSP will never look totally unbeatable as long as the Serra loss is remembered.

NoRegret wrote:

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

Can you say it started with Faber and Torres? 2 top 5 P4P fighters at the time of their losses.

If you want to include them, sure...that only adds to my case.

I dont think Torres faced alot of top tier talent in his run though.

Torres was a top 5 on every single P4P list, same with Faber when he lost.

Torres was stuck on the p4p lists because of a boatload of wins against nobodies and because "insiders" much more inside than us said he was that great. He never beat anyone.


The only MMA fighter I know of to pad his record against club fighter bums to get a billion wins and translate those into hype the way boxers do.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Fedor was the exception, but a loss was coming sooner or later.

Randy said that no doubt because he has a record approaching .500.


Anderson will lose to a wrestler. He's only faced one and lost the first round. Spider is far from unbeatable. Chael Sonnen could beat him and make it look easy.

GSP will never look totally unbeatable as long as the Serra loss is remembered.

I just remember a bogus headbutt. IF those two fought again...Serra would get toyed with and destroyed.

I see your point, but im just seeing a trend in recent events of the sport's top guys getting knocked off of the pedestal.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Torres was stuck on the p4p lists because of a boatload of wins against nobodies and because "insiders" much more inside than us said he was that great. He never beat anyone.


The only MMA fighter I know of to pad his record against club fighter bums to get a billion wins and translate those into hype the way boxers do.

What was the highest you had him ranked?

Maybe top 5 at one point, but I was wrong and basing my opinion off others praise of him and not his record. Torres was a paper tiger.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Maybe top 5 at one point, but I was wrong and basing my opinion off others praise of him and not his record. Torres was a paper tiger.

Who was extremely fun to watch....that played a major factor in it IMO.

Torres showed excellent jj early, then showed good striking, behind a long reach and a good chin late. I tend to think his recent fall is due more to getting caught and losing confidence then to lack of big time ability.

He and Faber are def good additions to the list.

They both fought in baby weight classes short on depth. They were bound to lose before the end of their primes due to better fighters coming along naturally. The WEC title only garnered true world class status like a year and a half ago, before that Torres and Faber inhereted their titles from the Norcal regional era of the WEC when the WEC title was worth approximately the same as Strikeforce, TPC, Gladiator Challenge ect.

Note; Strikeforce's title is worth a lot more than then now too.

We've now seen it with Fedor, GSP, Faber and BJ... And yes, many were even saying that Machida was miles ahead of the pack and would go on some long unbeaten tear as well. It's pretty simple in MMA... If you fight long enough, you will get a bad match-up and/or get careless and lose a fight. GSP, Aldo, Cyborg and Anderson will all lose fights in the future. We don't know when it will happen, but they will get a bad match-up or get careless and lose a fight. It doesn't mean they aren't great... But just as with Fedor or BJ now, their true greatness will be shown in how they respond to that loss. GSP has cemented his place as the GOAT at WW due to what he's done since losing that fight to Serra. Fedor is already thought of as the GOAT, but if he comes back and wipes the floor with the Overeem, Werdum and God willing the reigning UFC champ of the time... It will cement that in impressive fashion. Of course, if he hadn't had this loss and went on to pummel Overeem and Brock/Carwin... Many MMA fans would still be believing Fedor himself is indeed God...

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Maybe top 5 at one point, but I was wrong and basing my opinion off others praise of him and not his record. Torres was a paper tiger.

http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=moresports&id=mma&tid=4271419&lid=18
WolfgangVanBach Post #1: Feb 11 2009, 8:37 pm Quote | Report Violation
Total Posts: 4137
1. GSP

2. Fedor

3. Anderson Silva

4. Machida

5. Torres

Here is my list of current champs that I think are unlikely to lose their title any time soon.

1. GSP
2. Anderson Silva
3. Aldo
4. Brock

I think all of the other champs are very beatable. I'm sure I'll get a lot of flak for listing Brock but I'm entitled to my opinion.

And there you go.

sonnen is going to have a better shot than most of you think. I mean can anyone honestly say they felt he had a chance against marquardt. And he fucking dominated him like no one has before. just sayin

Sonnen could easily win that fight honestly. My only beef is he'll have to hugnlove to do it. Silva has a dangerous guard and Sonnen has fallen into that flytrap before being overly aggressive.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Sonnen could easily win that fight honestly. My only beef is he'll have to hugnlove to do it. Silva has a dangerous guard and Sonnen has fallen into that flytrap before being overly aggressive.

Yeah , fucking Maia dominated his ass and Sonnen fell for it. But Maia did do the most awesome sweep I have seen, to get him in that position and I don't think anyone is dumb enough to think Silva's BJJ is close to being on par with Maia's.

I know Hendo was hurt, but he isn't exactly easy to sub. Lutter is after all the MJ of BJJ and he fell victim to a submission. Granted he is an overrated fighter who was out of shape for that contest, but never the less, subbing Lutter means Silva's guard is legit. His long legs make him very dangerous. That build is how Dan Hornbuckle was so successful from his back for the first two Bellator rounds. Diaz bros, Aoki, Hazelett and Condit are also dangerous guard guys - common factor - skinny legs. Jeff Monson won the ADCC too, and he aint subbin shit off his back.

Chael will have to be very cautious - ie boring - if he wants to win. Of course he could take him down, go all out looking for a finish and get it - but that isn't a smart strategy. It's cost him before.

It will be curious to see what he does.

If it were a 3 rd fight the maybe. But if it's competitive early, with Sonnen earning takedowns, then Silva turns up the heat, and at some point, KO's this guy.

Still got Jose Aldo